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Episode
139: Why Some Thin People Get Diabetes and Ethnicity’s Impact with Dr. Ben Bikman
~41 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

139: Why Some Thin People Get Diabetes and Ethnicity’s Impact with Dr. Ben Bikman

Ben Bikman
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

The United States has ~40% obesity and ~11% type 2 diabetes, while Singapore has ~10% obesity but a similar ~10% diabetes rate—proving that total fat mass is not the main driver of metabolic disease; fat cell size and ethnicity-specific fat storage capacity are.

2

Adipose tissue expands via hypertrophy (existing cells enlarge, become insulin resistant, leak free fatty acids, and cause inflammation) or hyperplasia (new small cells are metabolically safe). A person's metabolic fate hinges on their capacity for hyperplasia, which varies by ethnicity.

3

South Asians, East Asians, and others have a lower personal fat threshold, developing diabetes at lower BMIs. Ethnic-specific BMI cutoffs are needed: for South Asians a BMI of 23 carries diabetes risk equivalent to 30 in Europeans.

4

Practical clinical markers—the Adipo-IR index (fasting insulin × free fatty acids) and the adiponectin/leptin ratio—reflect fat cell health better than BMI; waist circumference or waist-to-hip ratio are also superior predictors.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

3 items

Calculate and Interpret Your Adipo-IR Index

WhatMultiply fasting insulin level by fasting free fatty acid level; interpret with sex-specific cutoffs (women ~5.9, men <4). Lower values indicate healthier adipose tissue.
WhenDuring a fasting (8‑12 hour) blood draw, alongside other metabolic labs.
DoseA single calculation; repeat periodically to track trends over months.
For whomAnyone wanting to assess adipocyte health, especially those with normal BMI but metabolic symptoms, or those monitoring effects of lifestyle changes. Particularly relevant for Asian ethnicities where the personal fat threshold is lower.
WhyCaptures the loss of insulin’s anti‑lipolytic control over adipocytes; when fat cells are hypertrophic and insulin resistant, both insulin and free fatty acids rise, and their product signals the degree of adipose dysfunction.
CaveatsRequires a lab that measures free fatty acids, which is not part of routine panels; sex-specific interpretation is essential because women naturally have higher free fatty acids. No universal diagnostic threshold exists—use as a continuous risk marker rather than a cutoff-based diagnosis. Results should be integrated with other metabolic markers.

Bikman spends considerable time on the inverse relationship between insulin and free fatty acids under normal physiology, and how hypertrophic fat cells break this rule. He illustrates that the liver, when confronted with both high free fatty acids and high insulin, is forced to store rather than burn fat, causing ectopic liver fat and setting the stage for hepatic insulin resistance. The Adipo‑IR index mathematically captures this break, making it the ‘most beloved’ marker. He also touches on sex differences: women have higher basal free fatty acids because their smaller adipocytes are more lipolytically active, thus they have a higher normal Adipo‑IR (around 5.9 vs men’s <4). He encourages clinicians and patients to use it, even though free fatty acid testing is not standard.

Mechanism

In healthy adipocytes, insulin binds its receptor, activating signaling that suppresses hormone‑sensitive lipase, preventing triglyceride breakdown and keeping free fatty acids low. In hypertrophic cells, insulin signaling becomes impaired, so lipolysis continues despite high insulin. The simultaneous elevation of insulin (from whole‑body resistance) and free fatty acids (from adipose spill‑over) is abnormal and quantitated by the product. The index therefore directly reflects the failure of adipocyte insulin action, not just systemic resistance.

Personal experience

Bikman says: ‘the adipo IR index is perhaps my most beloved of all metabolic markers because it is such a beautiful indicator of the elegant system of the fat cell in insulin.’ He has used it in his research and clinical reasoning.

The elegance of the formula reflects everything we've discussed today. … The product of those two values insulin and free fatty acids. It therefore captures … the degree to which atapose tissue has lost its normal insulin sensitivity.

Also said
“In women, you have an atypoir index score of about 5.9. That's generally the range of what's considered a normal level. But in men, it's less than four. It's in the kind of mid3s.”— Gives actionable cutoffs.
“High insulin and high free fatty acids do not coexist in healthy physiology. … When the fat cell becomes insulin resistant, this anti‑lipolytic break fails. … You get both simultaneously, high insulin and high free fatty acids.”— Explains the physiological mismatch the index measures.
“The product of those two values … therefore captures … the degree to which atapose tissue has lost its normal insulin sensitivity.”— Directly states what the index quantifies.

Use Waist Circumference or Waist-to-Hip Ratio Instead of BMI

WhatMeasure waist circumference at the umbilicus, or calculate waist-to-hip ratio, to assess visceral adiposity and metabolic risk.
WhenAt routine health assessments, weight checks, or whenever BMI is measured.
DoseSingle measurement at each visit; track changes over time.
For whomAll adults, but particularly individuals of South Asian, East Asian, or other non‑European ethnicities with a lower personal fat threshold, or those with a BMI <30 but other metabolic concerns.
WhyVisceral fat expands almost exclusively through hypertrophy, produces more inflammatory cytokines, and drains directly into the liver’s portal system, making central adiposity a stronger predictor of cardiometabolic risk than total weight.
CaveatsMeasurement technique must be standardized (e.g., at the narrowest point or at the umbilicus); no universal cutoffs yet that completely replace BMI, but evidence strongly supports its superiority for risk prediction. Does not directly measure fat cell size, but distribution.

Bikman cites that researchers have argued waist circumference or waist-to-hip ratio outperforms BMI across ethnic groups, a sentiment he ‘agrees with completely.’ He ties this to the biology of visceral fat: it inevitably grows by hypertrophy, making it inherently more metabolically damaging than subcutaneous fat that can grow through hyperplasia. While he doesn’t give specific waist cutoff numbers, he implies that clinicians should be paying more attention to the tape measure than the scale.

Mechanism

Visceral adipocytes are prone to hypertrophy because the abdominal cavity limits space; large cells become insulin resistant and leak free fatty acids directly into the portal vein, which feeds the liver and promotes hepatic insulin resistance and fatty liver. Waist circumference captures the degree of this central fat accumulation.

Some researchers have argued that waist circumference or waist to hip ratio or direct measures of visceral fat are better predictors of cardioabolic risk than BMI across all ethnic groups. That is a sentiment of course that I agree with completely.

Also said
“Visceral fat which surrounds the abdominal organs … is much more metabolically active and pro-inflammatory by nature. … visceral atapost tissue will selectively grow through hypertrophy.”— Explains why central fat is so dangerous.
“That is why visceral atapose is such a problem. … it contributes more to inflammation and more to insulin resistance.”— Adds mechanistic weight.

Monitor Adiponectin/Leptin Ratio

WhatRequest blood tests for adiponectin and leptin, calculate the ratio, and follow the trend over time.
WhenBaseline and then annually or semiannually, especially when implementing lifestyle changes.
DoseRepeat labs as needed; no single threshold—interpret the direction and magnitude of change.
For whomIndividuals who want a deeper metabolic assessment, particularly those whose BMI and waist circumference don’t clearly explain their risk, or those managing obesity/diabetes to gauge fat cell health improvements beyond weight loss.
WhyAdiponectin, released by small healthy adipocytes, improves insulin sensitivity and reduces inflammation; leptin correlates with total fat mass and rises further with adipocyte enlargement. A declining ratio indicates a shift toward hypertrophic, metabolically harmful adipose tissue.
CaveatsNo established clinical cutoffs; interpretation relies on individual trend. Adiponectin and leptin assays are not part of standard metabolic panels and may require justification or out‑of‑pocket cost. Must be tracked consistently to be useful; a single snapshot is less informative.

Bikman presents the adiponectin/leptin ratio as a clinically useful marker that ‘correlates meaningfully with insulin sensitivity, visceral fat accumulation, and all the markers of the metabolic syndrome.’ He acknowledges that it’s not widely used because these tests are still ‘a little obscure,’ but he strongly encourages patients to discuss it with their clinicians. He positions it alongside the Adipo‑IR index as a way to infer fat cell size without a biopsy, making the science of adipocyte biology accessible.

Mechanism

Small adipocytes secrete high levels of adiponectin, which activates AMPK and PPAR‑α pathways, enhancing fat oxidation and insulin sensitivity. As adipocytes become hypertrophic and dysfunctional, adiponectin secretion drops and leptin secretion increases (partly from enlarged cells and partly from whole‑body fat mass). The ratio therefore reflects the proportion of healthy vs. unhealthy adipocytes.

Research has shown that this ratio correlates meaningfully with insulin sensitivity, visceral fat accumulation, and all the markers of the metabolic syndrome. and it's a much better predictor of someone's general direction of metabolic health and BMI or even waist circumference.

Also said
“Adopeneectin is secreted by small metabolically healthy atyposytes. … Leptin is secreted in proportion to fat mass and thus it rises dramatically as fat mass goes up. … In hypertrophic obesity, adapenectin falls and leptin rises.”— Describes the source and dynamic.
“Your adopeneectin to leptin ratio unfortunately there are not clear cut offs for that. It would just be a matter of you getting it measured one time … and then comparing the trend over time.”— Sets realistic expectations for use.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

4 items

fat-cell-size-over-mass

early lecture

Total body weight and BMI fail to predict metabolic health; the size of individual fat cells determines insulin sensitivity and inflammation. Hypertrophic fat cells cause disease, while hyperplastic expansion maintains health.

Why this matters: Challenges the conventional ‘obesity = diabetes’ equation and reframes the clinical focus to cellular fat storage quality, explaining metabolically healthy obesity and thin people with diabetes.

Background

Obesity has long been defined by BMI (≥30) based on European populations, but paradoxes like the ‘metabolically healthy obese’ and high diabetes rates in lean Asian populations forced a reexamination of what aspect of fat causes harm.

Bikman explains that white adipose tissue expands by hypertrophy (existing fat cells ballooning) or hyperplasia (forming new small cells). Hypertrophic cells exceed a critical size where they become insulin resistant, failing to suppress lipolysis even when insulin is high, resulting in simultaneous high insulin and high free fatty acids—a metabolically toxic duet that forces the liver to store ectopic fat. At the same time, enlarged cells endure hypoxia, activating HIF-1α, which stimulates angiogenesis but also triggers a cascade of pro-inflammatory cytokines like TNF-α and IL-6. This local inflammation spills systemically, exacerbating insulin resistance. In contrast, hyperplastic expansion maintains small, well-vascularized fat cells that secrete adiponectin and respond normally to insulin. The ‘adipose expandability hypothesis’ posits that each individual has a finite capacity for safe hyperplasia; exceed it and hypertrophy takes over. This cellular lens explains why some people with high BMI remain metabolically healthy (they store fat hyperplastically) while others with modest weight gain develop diabetes because their fat cells hit the hypertrophic threshold early. Thus, the relevant question is not ‘how much fat?’ but ‘how big are the fat cells?’.

Personal experience

Bikman acknowledges that a fat biopsy is the definitive way to measure cell size (‘in my lab, you could come in and we would take a fat biopsy, but nobody is lining up for that’), but he champions non‑invasive surrogates like the Adipo‑IR index.

It's not how fat you are, it's how big your individual fat cells are that predicts your metabolic health.

Also said
“The same total amount of fat stored through hyperplasia versus hypertrophy has dramatically different consequences for the rest of your body.”— Emphasizes that fat quantity alone is misleading.
“Approximately 20 to 30% of obese individuals can be characterized as metabolically healthy obese. … these individuals are gaining fat through hyperplasia, not hypertrophy.”— Provides real‑world evidence that expansion mode matters.
“Large atyposites from hypertrophic obesity are linked with insulin resistance, elevated free fatty acids … and reduced secretion of beneficial hormones like adopeneectin.”— Lists the specific harms of large fat cells.

ethnicity-specific-bmi-thresholds

mid-lecture

Ethnic groups differ fundamentally in subcutaneous fat hyperplasia capacity, so standard BMI cutoffs miss metabolic risk in South, East, and Southeast Asians—for whom obesity-equivalent risk occurs at BMIs as low as 23.

Why this matters: Millions of individuals are misclassified as normal weight while already experiencing adipose dysfunction; a call to adopt ethnicity‑adjusted clinical cutoffs, citing Lancet Diabetes & Endocrinology data.

Background

The WHO’s BMI≥30 cutoff for obesity was derived from European data and applied globally, ignoring evidence that Asians develop diabetes at much lower weights. Longitudinal studies from Singapore, China, and the UK Biobank finally provided population‑level validation.

Bikman highlights a landmark Lancet study that calculated ethnic‑specific BMI equivalents for diabetes risk. For South Asians, the BMI threshold matching a European’s BMI 30 was just 23; for Chinese and Arab populations it was 26. Additional analyses showed Singapore Chinese women needed a BMI of only 25 to equal the diabetes risk of a white European woman at BMI 40. The biological basis: South and East Asians have a lower personal fat threshold because their subcutaneous tissue has limited capacity for hyperplasia, so adipocytes rapidly enter hypertrophic, insulin‑resistant states at lower total fat mass. Even at birth, Asian Indian newborns have higher total adiposity and more visceral fat than European newborns, proving a genetic predisposition. Bikman argues that this is not a minor nuance but a fundamental revision of the relationship between weight and metabolic risk; continued use of universal cutoffs means that early‑stage disease is ignored in millions. He explicitly advocates that clinicians should adopt ethnicity‑adjusted thresholds and move toward metrics like waist circumference that capture central adiposity.

A South Asian person with a BMI of 24, which would be classified as normal weight by standard criteria, faces a diabetes risk equivalent to a white European person with a BMI of 30.

Also said
“For South Asian populations, the BMI cutoff equivalent to a BMI of 30 in white Europeans was only 23.”— Quantifies the disparity precisely.
“Singapore Chinese women for example require a BMI cutoff of only 25 to match the diabetes risk seen at a BMI of 40 in white European women.”— Shows extreme divergence even within Asian subgroups.
“Millions of Asian individuals are being classified as metabolically normal when they are not simply because the measuring stick being used was calibrated on a different population.”— States the real‑world consequence of using a one‑size‑fits‑all BMI.

personal-fat-threshold

mid-lecture

Every person has an innate, genetically influenced maximum capacity for safe subcutaneous fat storage; once that personal fat threshold is exceeded, even at a ‘normal’ weight, ectopic fat deposition and metabolic disease ensue.

Why this matters: Explains the ‘thin‑fat’ phenomenon and unifies the science of adipocyte expandability with clinical observations of diabetes in lean individuals, shifting responsibility from total obesity to individual storage limits.

Background

Roy Taylor’s work on type 2 diabetes remission introduced the term, and Bikman connects it to fat cell biology: the threshold is the point at which hyperplastic capacity is exhausted and hypertrophy dominates, causing inflammation and spill‑over.

Bikman elaborates that the personal fat threshold varies enormously—one person may exceed it at a BMI of 22, another at 35—because it is set by genetics (and hence ethnicity), early‑life programming, and the innate ability of subcutaneous tissue to produce new small fat cells. Crucially, below the threshold, fat accumulation can remain metabolically neutral, even if total body fat is high. South Asians and East Asians, on average, have a lower threshold, which is why they develop fatty liver and insulin resistance at BMIs that would be considered healthy for a white European. This reframes the clinical question: instead of asking whether a patient is obese by population standards, the physician should assess whether that individual has exceeded their own storage capacity—manifested by rising waist circumference, elevated free fatty acids, and eventually hyperglycemia. The concept also explains why some obese individuals are metabolically healthy: they have a high personal fat threshold and store excess energy through hyperplasia.

One person may exceed their personal fat threshold at a BMI of 22 while another may exceed it only at a BMI of 35.

Also said
“The personal fat threshold is the idea that every individual has their own maximum capacity for safe subcutaneous fat storage and once that capacity is exceeded fat begins spilling over into ectopic sites like the liver.”— The core definition.
“This is precisely why the ethnic differences we've been discussing are so important. South Asians and East Asians and Southeast Asians on average have a lower personal fat threshold than Europeans and Africans.”— Links ethnicity to the threshold concept.
“The threshold is not the same for everyone. It is determined by your genetics which of course is influenced by your ethnicity but even also your developmental history … the inherent expandability of your atapost tissue.”— Explains the determinants of the threshold.

adipo-ir-index-and-adiponectin-leptin-ratio

late lecture

Two practical biomarkers—the Adipo‑IR index (fasting insulin × free fatty acids) and the adiponectin/leptin ratio—provide a window into fat cell size and insulin sensitivity, surpassing BMI and waist circumference.

Why this matters: Offers clinicians and patients concrete, albeit not yet routine, lab‑derived indices that capture the adipose‑specific dysfunction driving diabetes, with sex‑specific cutoffs mentioned.

Background

Common insulin resistance measures like HOMA‑IR focus on hepatic/muscle resistance; adipose‑specific resistance had been inferred but not easily quantified. Bikman presents these indices as directly reflective of adipocyte biology.

Bikman describes the adiponectin/leptin ratio: adiponectin is secreted by small, healthy adipocytes and promotes insulin sensitivity; leptin rises with total fat mass, especially from enlarged cells. In hypertrophic obesity, adiponectin falls and leptin rises, causing the ratio to plummet, correlating with insulin resistance and visceral fat accumulation. Although no standard cutoffs exist, he suggests tracking the ratio over time if one can persuade a clinician to order the tests. The Adipo‑IR index, his self‑described favorite, is simply fasting insulin multiplied by fasting free fatty acids. In healthy adipose, insulin suppresses lipolysis, keeping free fatty acids low. When adipocytes become insulin resistant, the brake fails, and the product of high insulin and high free fatty acids quantifies the degree of adipose insulin resistance. He provides sex‑specific normal ranges: for women ~5.9, for men less than 4 (mid‑3s), because women naturally have higher baseline free fatty acids and thus a higher normal Adipo‑IR. Both markers tell you about fat cell size and function without a biopsy.

Personal experience

He states, ‘the adipo IR index is perhaps my most beloved of all metabolic markers because it is such a beautiful indicator of the elegant system of the fat cell in insulin.’ He uses it in clinical reasoning and sees it as elegantly encapsulating the lecture’s core physiology.

The product of those two values insulin and free fatty acids. It therefore captures … the degree to which atapose tissue has lost its normal insulin sensitivity.

Also said
“In women, you have an atypoir index score of about 5.9. That's generally the range of what's considered a normal level. But in men, it's less than four. It's in the kind of mid3s.”— Provides the specific numerical cutoffs.
“Both of these measures the adopeneectin to leptin ratio or the atypo IR index they'll tell you something about what your fat cells are doing. They'll tell you about the size of the fat cell.”— Frames their clinical utility.
“The elegance of the formula reflects everything we've discussed today. … The product of those two values insulin and free fatty acids. It therefore captures … the degree to which atapose tissue has lost its normal insulin sensitivity.”— Reinforces the rationale.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

3 items

Adipo-IR Index (fasting insulin × free fatty acids)

Tool

A calculated metabolic index that captures adipose-specific insulin resistance. Requires fasting insulin and free fatty acid labs; interpret using sex-specific norms (women ~5.9, men <4).

Bikman delivers a thorough justification of the Adipo-IR index as a direct readout of the breakdown of insulin’s anti-lipolytic action in adipose tissue. Healthy adipocytes suppress free fatty acid release when insulin is present; when they become hypertrophic and insulin resistant, this brake fails, creating a simultaneous elevation of insulin and free fatty acids. Multiplying the two yields a single number that quantifies the degree of adipose insulin resistance. He highlights that it is his ‘most beloved’ metric because it elegantly captures the lecture’s core physiology, and he notes that sex-specific cutoffs exist because women have naturally higher free fatty acid levels. While it requires a lab that measures free fatty acids, he encourages its use for early detection of metabolic risk, especially in people who are not obviously obese.

vs alternatives

Unlike HOMA-IR, which reflects hepatic and peripheral insulin resistance, the Adipo-IR specifically reveals how well the fat cell is responding to insulin—providing a direct adipose perspective.

Personal experience

He states: ‘the adipo IR index is perhaps my most beloved of all metabolic markers’ and describes using it in his analysis of fat cell function.

The elegance of the formula reflects everything we've discussed today. … The product of those two values insulin and free fatty acids. It therefore captures … the degree to which atapose tissue has lost its normal insulin sensitivity.

Also said
“In women, you have an atypoir index score of about 5.9. … But in men, it's less than four. It's in the kind of mid3s.”— Provides practical numeric guidance.
“It's not the massive fat that matters most … It's the size of our individual fat cells.”— Reinforces that the index is a proxy for cell size.
Find Adipo-IR

Waist circumference / waist-to-hip ratio measurement

Practice

A simple anthropometric measure that better predicts cardiometabolic risk than BMI across ethnic groups, endorsed by Bikman.

Throughout the lecture Bikman criticizes BMI because it fails to capture fat distribution and cell size. He notes that some researchers advocate waist circumference or waist-to-hip ratio as superior predictors, a view he agrees with completely. He ties this to the biology: visceral fat grows through hypertrophy and directly drains into the liver, making central adiposity a direct proxy for metabolically harmful fat storage. He stops short of providing specific waist cutoffs but clearly positions the tape measure as a more clinically useful tool than the scale.

vs alternatives

Compared to BMI, waist circumference captures visceral adiposity; compared to advanced imaging, it is cheap and accessible.

Some researchers have argued that waist circumference or waist to hip ratio or direct measures of visceral fat are better predictors of cardioabolic risk than BMI across all ethnic groups. That is a sentiment of course that I agree with completely.

Also said
“Visceral atapost tissue will selectively grow through hypertrophy. That is why visceral atapose is such a problem.”— Explains the biology behind the metric.
Find Waist

Adiponectin and leptin blood tests with ratio tracking

Practice

Requesting non-routine adiponectin and leptin labs to calculate their ratio, providing insight into adipocyte health and size trends.

Bikman describes adiponectin as a hormone secreted by small, healthy fat cells that enhances insulin sensitivity and fights inflammation, while leptin rises with total fat mass and particularly with enlarged adipocytes. The ratio therefore drops when adipose tissue becomes dysfunctional. He admits that clear clinical cutoffs do not exist and that the tests are not yet standard, but he urges patients to try to get them measured periodically to track the trajectory of their metabolic health. He sees this as a more informative marker than BMI or even waist circumference, though less accessible.

vs alternatives

More direct than BMI and waist circumference because it reflects adipocyte secretory function, but less convenient and more expensive.

Your adopeneectin to leptin ratio … it's a much better predictor of someone's general direction of metabolic health and BMI or even waist circumference.

Also said
“Adopeneectin is secreted by small metabolically healthy atyposytes. … Leptin is secreted in proportion to fat mass and thus it rises dramatically as fat mass goes up.”— Basics of the ratio components.
Find Adiponectin

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

7 items
It's not how fat you are, it's how big your individual fat cells are that predicts your metabolic health.
Core thesis of the lecture, reframing metabolic risk at the cellular level.
A South Asian person with a BMI of 24, which would be classified as normal weight by standard criteria, faces a diabetes risk equivalent to a white European person with a BMI of 30.
Stark, memorable illustration of ethnic disparity in diabetes risk.
One person may exceed their personal fat threshold at a BMI of 22 while another may exceed it only at a BMI of 35.
Encapsulates the personal fat threshold concept with concrete numbers.
High insulin and high free fatty acids do not coexist in healthy physiology.
A crisp physiological rule that underpins the Adipo-IR index.
the fat cell is telling insulin, insulin, you want me to keep storing fat and get bigger, but I'm already as big as I can get.
Personifies the hypertrophic fat cell’s resistance, making the mechanism vivid.
the adipo IR index is perhaps my most beloved of all metabolic markers because it is such a beautiful indicator of the elegant system of the fat cell in insulin attempting to control what the fat cell is doing.
Reveals the expert’s professional enthusiasm and signals clinical utility.
Millions of Asian individuals are being classified as metabolically normal when they are not simply because the measuring stick being used was calibrated on a different population.
A call to action against universal BMI cutoffs.

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Topics covered

fat-cell-hypertrophyhyperplasiaadipocyte-biologyinsulin-resistancefree-fatty-acidsectopic-fatpersonal-fat-thresholdethnicity-metabolic-riskbmi-limitationsvisceral-fatsubcutaneous-fatadipo-ir-indexadiponectin-leptin-ratiowaist-circumferencesingapore-diabetes-paradoxmetabolically-healthy-obesehypoxia-inflammationtype-2-diabetesliver-fatethnic-specific-bmi-cutoffs
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