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Episode
348 ‒ Women’s sexual health, menopause, and hormone replacement therapy (HRT)
~186 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

348 ‒ Women’s sexual health, menopause, and hormone replacement therapy (HRT)

Peter Attia
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

The Women’s Health Initiative (WHI) was disastrously misinterpreted: the estrogen-only arm showed a _decrease_ in breast cancer incidence and mortality, yet the absolute risk increase in the combined arm was only 0.1%, leading to a generation of fear and loss of HRT prescribing.

2

Vaginal estrogen or DHEA reduces recurrent UTIs by more than 50% and could save Medicare $6–22 billion annually, but the FDA’s black-box warning falsely claims stroke, clot, and dementia risks, and doctors still refuse to prescribe it.

3

Testosterone therapy in women for low libido is supported by global consensus yet lacks an FDA-approved product; using 1/10th of a male topical gel dose (e.g., Testim 0.5 mL daily) is safe, effective, and takes 3–5 months for full effect.

4

Micronized progesterone 100–200 mg at bedtime helps sleep and mood for most, but ~10–20% of women experience rage/depression; for them, a vaginal route or a progestin IUD preserves uterine protection without the neuropsychiatric side effects.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

7 items

Sequential systemic HRT initiation

WhatBegin with transdermal estradiol at a medium-low dose (patch, gel, or ring). After 1–2 months, add micronized progesterone 100 mg oral nightly. After another 1–2 months, add testosterone as a 0.5 mL blob of 1% gel to the calf daily. Titrate each step based on symptoms and occasional LCMS estradiol/FSH levels.
WhenAt perimenopause or menopause when bothersome symptoms (hot flashes, sleep, mood, sexual, joint pain) interfere with quality of life, and the patient has no absolute contraindications like active hormone-sensitive cancer.
DoseEstradiol: start 0.025–0.05 mg patch (e.g., Vivelle-Dot), Estrogel pump, or Femring 0.05 mg. Progesterone: micronized 100 mg PO qhs (or 200 mg cyclically day 12–26). Testosterone: ~0.5 mL of 1% gel (approx 5 mg) applied to calf, one tube lasts ~10 days.
For whomSymptomatic perimenopausal and postmenopausal women with a uterus (progesterone required) or without (estrogen alone). For women with a uterus who cannot tolerate progesterone, switch progesterone to IUD or vaginal route.
WhyIsolates each hormone’s effects to avoid confusion and minimize side effects; allows personalized fine-tuning. Transdermal estrogen avoids first-pass liver effects and is better for sexual function per KEEPS trial.
CaveatsNot for those with active hormone receptor-positive cancer. In perimenopause, bleeding can be erratic; an IUD helps. Check LCMS estradiol, not immunoassay. If breast tenderness occurs, reduce estradiol dose. For progesterone-intolerant women, try vaginal route first, then IUD. Pellets are discouraged due to supraphysiologic levels.

Rubin emphasizes this stepwise approach because many patients demand ‘give me everything at once,’ which almost always leads to side effects and confusion. She starts with estrogen because vasomotor symptoms are often the most disruptive, then adds progesterone mainly for uterine protection (with bonus sleep benefits), and finally testosterone for sexual and genitourinary health. She monitors by symptoms first but uses LCMS estradiol and FSH levels to troubleshoot—e.g., if a Femring user has a return of hot flashes and estradiol is <20 pg/mL, she knows the ring is failing early and can add a patch toward the end of the cycle. She finds labs particularly useful when absorption is questionable, such as with patches that don’t stick or patients who don’t absorb topicals well.

Mechanism

Estradiol binds nuclear receptors in virtually all tissues, reducing vasomotor instability, bone resorption, and brain fog. Progesterone opposes estrogen-driven endometrial proliferation, preventing hyperplasia/cancer, and its GABA-ergic metabolites promote sleep. Testosterone acts on androgen receptors in the brain, genitourinary tissues, and musculoskeletal system, enhancing libido, arousal, and tissue integrity.

Personal experience

Rubin: 'I like to start one before the other in general because I like people to know what's doing what. This is what I do in my clinic.'

I like to start one before the other in general because I like people to know what's doing what.

Also said
“When someone comes to see you and says give it all to me. It's always a disaster every time.”— Reinforces the rationale for sequential therapy.

Micronized progesterone prescriber's guide

WhatPrescribe oral micronized progesterone (100 mg at bedtime) daily for endometrial protection. If well tolerated, increase to 200 mg daily or use 200 mg cyclically for 12–14 days per month. For those with mood side effects, switch to vaginal administration of the same capsule or insert a levonorgestrel IUD. Consider taking with fat to improve absorption.
WhenInitiate after a woman on systemic estrogen has stabilized, usually 1–2 months after starting estradiol.
Dose100–200 mg daily (oral or vaginal) or 200 mg cyclical. IUD: levonorgestrel 52 mg (Mirena) or 19.5 mg (Kyleena), replaced per device guidelines.
For whomAll women with a uterus who take systemic estrogen. The progesterone-loving group can stay on oral; the sensitive group needs vaginal or IUD; the neutral group can take oral at minimum dose.
WhyPrevents unopposed estrogen-induced endometrial hyperplasia and cancer. Improves sleep and anxiety in the majority via GABAergic metabolites. Vaginal route reduces sedation and mood side effects.
CaveatsOral progesterone can cause severe irritability, depression, or bloating in ~10–20% of women—‘I become a raging bitch.’ If that occurs, try vaginal capsule first. Do not use oral progesterone in patients with peanut allergy (some brands). If switching to IUD, note that insertion can be uncomfortable and may cause irregular spotting initially.

Rubin categorizes women into three groups: lovers, neutrals, and haters. She emphasizes that even the haters need uterine protection, so she never simply drops progesterone; she finds an alternative. She often uses the vaginal route as a first rescue, and if that fails, places a progestin IUD. Interestingly, some women still get the sleep benefit from vaginal progesterone. She also points out that many clinicians don’t know that taking progesterone with a fat-containing meal substantially improves absorption.

Mechanism

Progesterone downregulates estrogen receptors in the endometrium and induces secretory transformation, reducing proliferation. Its metabolites allopregnanolone and pregnanolone are neuroactive steroids that enhance GABA-A receptor function, promoting calm and sleep. Vaginal administration bypasses first-pass hepatic metabolism, lowering systemic metabolite levels and reducing neuropsychiatric side effects.

A third of the patients love it and guzzle it like it's candy and they're the happiest people in the world... a third of patients who are very sensitive, right? The progester and even within that third, it is extreme.

Also said
“I say, 'Hey, try taking this vaginally and see if that goes away, right? See if you're no longer feeling anger or bloated or have irritability.'”— The first-line rescue for the sensitive third.
“Some people say if you take it with fat or you take it with something to eat it absorbs better because micronized progesterone is not absorbed very well.”— Simple trick that improves efficacy.

Low-dose transdermal testosterone for libido in women

WhatApply a small blob (~0.5 mL) of 1% testosterone gel (Testim) to the calf once daily in the morning. Use one 5-mL tube over 10 days. Expect initial benefits after 3–5 months.
WhenAfter estradiol and progesterone are optimized and libido remains low, or when women complain of low desire, poor arousal, or diminished orgasm.
Dose0.5 mL per day (approx 5 mg testosterone). One 5-mL 1% tube contains 50 mg of testosterone; used over 10 days yields ~5 mg/day.
For whomPostmenopausal women with low libido, or perimenopausal women with declining testosterone; also those with persistent GSM symptoms despite vaginal estrogen.
WhyReplaces the age-related decline in testosterone that begins in the 30s, not just at menopause. Global consensus supports testosterone for hypoactive sexual desire disorder in postmenopausal women. Additionally, androgen receptors in the urethra and bladder may improve continence and reduce UTIs.
CaveatsNo FDA-approved female formulation; this is off-label use of a male product. Avoid pellets (supraphysiologic, irreversible). Do not apply to genitals (alcohol base irritates). May cause mild acne or increased leg hair growth (shaving frequency may change). Takes 3–5 months for full effect; do not expect immediate results. Monitor free and total testosterone by LCMS.

Rubin is passionate about testosterone because her patients return saying ‘I feel like me again’—it is often the missing piece after estrogen and progesterone are optimized. She explains the FDA’s double standard: a 5-year, billion-dollar study proved safety and efficacy in women, but the FDA demanded 5 more years and another billion, so all pharmaceutical companies abandoned the field. She now relies on Testim 1% gel (or generic equivalents) with a tiny dose. She educates women that testosterone does not cause masculinization at physiologic doses; the biggest side effect is fear. She also notes that vaginal DHEA (Intrarosa) provides local androgens and is a great second-line for GSM.

Mechanism

Testosterone binds androgen receptors in the hypothalamus and limbic system to enhance sexual motivation and desire. In peripheral genitourinary tissues, it increases blood flow, smooth muscle relaxation, and trophic support to the vulvovaginal epithelium and urethra, reducing pain and improving lubrication.

When we add that testosterone piece, I it's wild. All the patients come back and they say to me, 'Wow, I feel like me again.' It's wild.

Also said
“I think I have more patients who never start testosterone therapy because of the fear of side effects than actually stop testosterone therapy because of the side effects.”— The biggest barrier is psychological, not physiological.
“I tell them think about a horny teenager. They have these great libidos but they have some oily skin, acne. But that's when you get really high with your doses.”— Contextualizes the side effects at physiologic dosing.

Vaginal estrogen/DHEA for GSM and UTI prevention

WhatPrescribe local vaginal estradiol cream (e.g., Estrace) 0.5–1 g nightly for 2 weeks, then 2–3 times/week indefinitely. Alternatively, intravaginal DHEA (Intrarosa) one insert nightly. Both are safe for all patients, including those with a history of breast cancer or clotting.
WhenIn any woman with genitourinary symptoms of menopause: vaginal dryness, dyspareunia, urinary urgency/frequency, recurrent UTIs, or pelvic pain. Start at menopause or earlier if symptoms develop.
DoseEstrace cream: 0.5–1 g (typically 0.5 g) per application, frequency tapering from daily to 2x/week. Intrarosa: one vaginal insert nightly. Continue lifelong for prevention.
For whomAll perimenopausal and postmenopausal women with GSM—including those at high risk for UTIs, older women, breast cancer survivors, women on aromatase inhibitors, and those with clotting risks. Systemic estrogen users may still need vaginal estrogen because systemic levels are often insufficient for the genitourinary tissues.
WhyRestores normal vaginal flora (lactobacilli) by increasing glycogen and acidity, reducing pathogenic colonization. Thickens the epithelium, improving barrier function and reducing trauma. Proven to cut UTI risk by >50%.
CaveatsThe FDA box warning (stroke, clots, dementia, breast cancer) is entirely false for local vaginal therapy; there is no systemic absorption. It does not require concomitant progesterone. Insurance usually covers it. Can cause transient burning in very atrophic tissue; pre-treat with a moisturizer or switch to DHEA. Do not use with a latex diaphragm (ring vs cream).

This is Rubin’s flagship topic. She details the history from ‘senile vagina’ to GSM and the fierce battle to include the word ‘urinary.’ She and her mentor published that universal Medicare use would save $6–22 billion/year. She recounts trying to get vaginal estrogen for her ventilated mother in the ICU, where the entire medical hierarchy refused because of the box warning—a tragedy that repeats daily. She says vaginal estrogen is ‘better than Viagra’ for women because it treats everything Viagra does for men plus prevents UTIs, yet no one knows about it. She is building a case to remove the box warning and is horrified the FDA refuses to act without industry pressure.

Mechanism

Estradiol binds ERα and ERβ in the vaginal and bladder epithelium, increasing cell proliferation, glycogen content, and lactic acid production, which promotes beneficial lactobacilli and lowers pH. This environment is hostile to uropathogens like E. coli. DHEA serves as a prohormone converted locally to both estrogens and androgens, activating androgen receptors as well, which are abundant in the vulvar vestibule and urethra.

Personal experience

Rubin’s mother spent 6 months in ICU after a transplant. Rubin had to write SBARs, convince transplant and ICU teams weekly, and teach nurses how to administer Estrace because the box warning scared everyone. Her mother eventually died, but not from a UTI. This story underpins her advocacy.

If everybody in Medicare eligibility used vaginal estrogen, we would save Medicare between 6 and 22 billion dollar a year.

Also said
“Vaginal hormones should not be gynecology. It should not be a small subset of menopause medicine. We could save Medicare between 6 and 22 billion dollars a year.”— Reframes GSM as a public health and economic priority.
“Viagra for women is vaginal hormones. What do vaginal hormones do? They relax the tissue. They increase arousal. They increase lubrication. They increase orgasm. They help with urinary symptoms. So they do everything Viagra does. And they prevent urinary tract infections. Viagra doesn't do that.”— Powerful analogy to drive home the missed opportunity.

Progestin IUD for HRT

WhatInsert a levonorgestrel-releasing IUD (Mirena or Kyleena) to provide endometrial protection when oral progesterone causes intolerable mood symptoms, or as a continuous progestin method in perimenopause for birth control and heavy bleeding.
WhenIn perimenopause when bleeding is heavy and erratic and oral progesterone makes mood worse, or later when a progesterone-sensitive woman needs uterine protection but can't tolerate oral/vaginal progesterone.
DoseMirena (52 mg) lasts 5–8 years; Kyleena (19.5 mg) lasts 5 years. Inserted once by a clinician.
For whomPeri- and postmenopausal women with a uterus who are progesterone-intolerant, or who need birth control along with HRT.
WhyProgestin acts locally on the endometrium with minimal systemic absorption, avoiding the neuropsychiatric side effects of oral progesterone. Also provides reliable contraception during perimenopause and reduces heavy menstrual bleeding.
CaveatsInsertion can be painful; may cause irregular spotting for the first few months. Some women may still experience mood effects from a small amount of systemic progestin (though rare). Does not provide the sleep benefit of progesterone; women may still need vaginal progesterone at bedtime for sleep if desired.

Rubin finds IUDs ideal for perimenopause because they solve three problems at once: uterine protection, bleeding control, and birth control. She often combines an IUD with an estrogen patch and a touch of testosterone for a ‘set it and forget it’ regimen. She cautions that even with an IUD, some women still enjoy the sleep effects of a low dose of vaginal progesterone, which is safe to add.

Mechanism

Levonorgestrel is a synthetic progestin that suppresses endometrial proliferation by downregulating estrogen receptors, causing decidualization and thinning of the endometrium. Because it is released locally in the uterine cavity, serum levels are 10-fold lower than with oral progestins, minimizing systemic side effects.

You throw an estrogen patch on and some testosterone and that's your a really great pmenopause plan.

Also said
“The IUD is very nice because it will stop bleeding. So you throw an estrogen patch on and some testosterone and that's your really great pmenopause plan.”— Paints the picture of a simple, highly effective combination.

LCMS estradiol monitoring in HRT

WhatWhen lab monitoring is needed, order estradiol by liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry (LCMS), not immunoassay, and consider FSH. Use levels to confirm absorption or troubleshoot persistent symptoms, but always treat the patient, not the number.
WhenWhen a woman on HRT has ambiguous symptoms, when using a product with variable absorption (ring, gel, patch), or when she has persistent vasomotor symptoms and you need to know if the dose is adequate.
DoseSingle blood draw; timing not strictly critical with steady-state transdermals, but if used to check peak, draw 12–24 hours after application.
For whomAny woman on systemic HRT whose symptom response alone isn’t guiding therapy, or when absorption is questioned.
WhyImmunoassays for estradiol are unreliable due to cross-reactivity; LCMS provides accurate absolute values. FSH elevation in the face of low-normal estradiol suggests inadequate replacement.
CaveatsSymptoms remain primary; labs are adjunctive. ‘Normal’ lab ranges are premenopausal and do not apply to menopause. Avoid over-testing; do not chase numbers. Some insurance may not cover LCMS without a reason.

Rubin and Attia strongly agree on this. The ‘book’ says never check labs, and the Instagram fringe checks everything; they both land in the middle. Rubin uses labs to show perimenopausal chaos to patients and to confirm that a Femring user whose estradiol is undetectable needs a new ring. Attia adds that FSH is a great marker: an FSH of 78 with estradiol of 40 tells him the woman needs more estrogen.

Mechanism

LCMS physically separates and quantifies estradiol molecules based on mass and charge, eliminating interference from biotin, heterophile antibodies, and other estrogens that plague immunoassays.

Personal experience

Attia shares that his group is meticulous about LCMS for estradiol and has seen otherwise meaningless results with immunoassays due to biotin or other supplements.

There's the book answer, the Instagram answer, and the Dr. Rubin answer somewhere in the middle.

Also said
“If a woman's FSH is 78 and her estradiol is 40, I'm inclined to believe she needs more estrogen.”— Peter Attia’s practical heuristic combining two markers.

Compounded estradiol-testosterone cream for vulvar vestibulitis

WhatFor women with persistent entry dyspareunia and UTI-like pelvic pain despite systemic and local vaginal hormones, use a compounded topical cream of 0.01% estradiol and 0.1% testosterone in a gentle base like Versabase, applied sparingly to the vulvar vestibule daily.
WhenAfter systemic HRT and vaginal estrogen/DHEA have been optimized but entry pain, burning, or ‘interstitial cystitis’ symptoms persist.
Dose0.01% estradiol + 0.1% testosterone; apply pea-sized amount to the vulvar vestibule nightly, then taper as symptoms resolve.
For whomWomen with hormone-mediated provoked vestibulodynia or persistent GSM despite monotherapy; a positive Q-tip test (pain only on vestibule, not labia minora) is key.
WhyThe vulvar vestibule (the endodermal tissue surrounding the urethral meatus) is dense in both estrogen and androgen receptors and is a blind spot for systemic and many local therapies. This combination directly treats that tissue, often curing provoked vestibulodynia and urinary pain.
CaveatsCompounded, not FDA approved. Must be prescribed by a knowledgeable provider. Ensure the base does not contain irritants (ask for Versabase or methylcellulose). Do not apply to the labia minora (ectoderm) which are not the target. Test a small area first. Expensive and rarely covered by insurance.

Rubin calls this the only time she compounds a product, because FDA-approved options don’t address this specific tissue. She teaches that during a pelvic exam, pressing the labia minora with a Q-tip causes no pain, but pressing the vestibule around the urethra reproduces the patient’s exact pain—often misdiagnosed as interstitial cystitis or recurrent UTI. This compounded cream can be curative. She wishes a company would study and manufacture it.

Mechanism

The vulvar vestibule originates from the urogenital sinus (endoderm), similar to the male urethra, and expresses high concentrations of estrogen and androgen receptors. Hormone deficiency leads to thinning, inflammation, and hypersensitivity. Direct topical application of both hormones normalizes receptor activation, reduces neurogenic inflammation, and restores tissue integrity.

This is the one time that I will compound a product for a woman ... you cure pain with sex, you help these UTI symptoms, interstitial cystitis goes away in so many patients—it's miraculous.

Also said
“If you push with a Q-tip on the labia minora they'll have no pain. If you push them on their vulvar vestibule, they'll say that's my UTI. That's my interstitial cystitis. That's the pain that I have with sex.”— Physical exam pearl that identifies the right patient.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

5 items

whi-misinterpretation

The WHI’s estrogen-only arm showed a _decreased_ risk of breast cancer incidence and mortality; the widely reported 24% relative increase in the combined arm corresponded to an absolute increase of only 0.1%. The entire hormone therapy field collapsed based on a press conference that highlighted the wrong statistics.

Why this matters: This single misinterpretation derailed women’s health for decades and created a medical brain drain where a generation of doctors never learned to prescribe HRT.

Background

Before the WHI, HRT was common, supported by epidemiologic data. The WHI was a billion-dollar randomized trial meant to settle the question, but its results were miscommunicated to the public before scientific scrutiny.

Rubin details how the results were announced via a press conference before the paper was published, scaring women and physicians overnight. The data actually showed that estrogen alone reduced breast cancer risk, colon cancer, fractures, diabetes, and even overall mortality, yet the news focused on a small incidence increase in the combined group. Even that increase disappeared when proper placebo groups were used. The labeling on all estrogen products still carries the black-box warning, despite the evidence. The fallout was so severe that less than 4% of eligible women now receive HRT, and most internal medicine and OB/GYN physicians receive zero menopause training.

Personal experience

Rubin tells how she still encounters colleagues who refuse to prescribe because ‘hormones are dangerous,’ and how the box labeling prevented her from getting vaginal estrogen for her own mother in the ICU.

We're killing women by trying to protect them.

Also said
“When you took estrogen and progesterine or estrogen alone, you had a decreased risk of colon cancer. You had decreased risk of fractures, like significant decrease of fractures, decrease of diabetes. ... We saw a decrease in overall mortality, a decrease in cancer specific mortality.”— Shows the broad benefits that were ignored.
“Less than 4% of women are on hormone therapy right now. That's worse than 10 years ago.”— Quantifies the damage caused by the misinformation.

testosterone-in-women

Testosterone is a critical but ignored hormone in women; it declines from age 30, not just at menopause, and its loss contributes to low libido, recurrent UTIs, pelvic pain, and incontinence. Global consensus says it works, yet the FDA has refused to approve a female product, moving goalposts after a billion-dollar safety study.

Why this matters: Testosterone is commonly thought of as male-only, but women have ten times more testosterone than estradiol by mass, and its withdrawal has been completely neglected.

Background

Historical view held testosterone as a male hormone; birth control pills suppress ovarian testosterone without replacement. No OB/GYN training covers it. The FDA demanded five more years of data after a five-year safety study showed it was safe and effective for women, causing all companies to abandon development.

Rubin prescribes off-label male topical testosterone gel (1%) at one-tenth the male dose, applied to the calf, and sees dramatic improvements in libido, orgasm, and sexual identity. She notes that vaginal DHEA also provides local androgens and reduces UTIs. Celebrities like Halle Berry and Kate Winslet now openly use testosterone, which is helping to destigmatize it.

Personal experience

Rubin’s patients often say, ‘Wow, I feel like me again’ after starting testosterone. She finds that fear of side effects prevents more women from starting than actual side effects cause them to stop.

We castrate women with the mere thought that they may develop an abnormal cell in their body and completely ignore their quality of life.

Also said
“When we add that testosterone piece, I it's wild. All the patients come back and they say to me, 'Wow, I feel like me again.'”— Anecdotal but powerful testament to the missing piece many women experience.
“I don't know who decided that men get testosterone and women have estrogen. Like we both have all of the hormones.”— Highlights the arbitrary gender split in hormone thinking.

democratizing-hrt

Menopause care is not just for gynecology; every physician who sees women over 40 should be able to prescribe HRT. Yet less than 4% of eligible US women are on HRT, and even endocrinologists and psychiatrists are told they cannot prescribe it.

Why this matters: This is a huge public health failure that has worsened over the last decade, with a massive shortage of trained prescribers creating a vacuum for unregulated private clinics.

Background

After the WHI, the entire field of menopause medicine collapsed. The doctors who knew how to prescribe either retired or died, and medical training completely dropped menopause content. Rubin notes she was asked to teach a hormone course at the American College of Physicians because there was none.

Rubin argues that all doctors—internists, cardiologists, psychiatrists, rheumatologists—should know that menopause affects their organs. Estrogen prevents colon cancer and osteoporosis, yet GI and bone doctors don’t prescribe it. Psychiatrists are told their malpractice won’t cover HRT, even though they use hormone-based postpartum depression drugs. The result is that 84 million women over 40 compete for a few thousand menopause-certified providers, leading many to seek care from questionable online pellet clinics.

Personal experience

Rubin teaches internal medicine doctors how to write HRT prescriptions and has been approached by psychiatrists saying their malpractice won't allow it.

This is half the population. This is not niche medicine.

Also said
“Less than 6% of internal medicine OB/GYN or family practice doctors get even an hour of menopause education in their training.”— Quantifies the training gap.

gsm-kills

Genitourinary syndrome of menopause (GSM) is not just vaginal dryness; it kills through recurrent UTIs and sepsis, especially in older women, but is fully preventable with cheap local vaginal estrogen or DHEA.

Why this matters: GSM is a leading cause of death in elderly women via urosepsis, yet the FDA’s black-box warning deters doctors from prescribing the very thing that could save lives and billions in Medicare costs.

Background

The condition was historically called ‘senile vagina’ or ‘vulvovaginal atrophy’ and considered a cosmetic nuisance. In 2014, the name changed to GSM to include urinary symptoms, thanks to a urologist who fought to have ‘urinary’ included.

Rubin published that universal Medicare use of vaginal estrogen would save $6–22 billion per year by preventing UTIs, ICU admissions, and sepsis. She fought the FDA to remove the box warning but was told it would require industry petition—yet the WHI destroyed the industry. Even when she tried to give her own mother vaginal estrogen in the ICU, the pharmacy and multiple teams refused because of the box warning. She had to teach the entire transplant and ICU team every week to get it administered.

Personal experience

Rubin’s mother: on ECMO in ICU, Rubin had to write an SBAR, convince the transplant team, ICU team, and pharmacy to dispense Estrace, then teach nurses how to give it. This happened weekly as teams rotated.

If everybody in Medicare eligibility used vaginal estrogen, we would save Medicare between 6 and 22 billion dollar a year.

Also said
“Vaginal hormones don't increase your risk of blood clots. you're talking about like a hydrocortisone cream compared to a solumedrol.”— Clarifies the absurdity of the systemic warning for a local product.
“This is a huge economic morbid and mortality problem that we are dealing with and no one cares.”— Emphasizes the institutional neglect.

progesterone-variability

Women fall into three distinct response groups for oral micronized progesterone: ~1/3 love it (great sleep, anti-anxiety), 1/3 are neutral, and 1/3 react with rage, depression, or bloating, possibly driven by GABA-receptor genetics.

Why this matters: This explains why ‘one-size-fits-all’ progesterone prescribing fails so many women, and provides a framework to personalize therapy.

Background

Standard HRT always requires progesterone for uterine protection, but many women stop or refuse HRT because of intolerable mood side effects. There is no routine test to predict who will react which way.

Rubin personalizes by trying oral first; if mood worsens, switch to vaginal route to bypass first-pass metabolism and reduce neuropsychiatric effects. If that fails, a progestin IUD or synthetic progestin can be used. Some women still get the sleep benefits of micronized progesterone even with an IUD by using a low dose vaginally.

I would say a third of the patients love it and guzzle it like it's candy... a third of the patients are like, I don't really notice... and then you've got a third of patients who are very sensitive.

Also said
“There's something about progesterone that doctors who know nothing feel very confident in saying, 'You can't be on this.'”— The irony of unqualified resistance even to a poorly tolerated option.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

10 items

Estrogen Matters by Avrum Bluming and Carol Tavris

Book

Rubin recommends this book, written by an oncologist, which questions the fear around estrogen and breast cancer.

She mentions Avrum Bluming was on Peter's show and has a great book that dives into the data showing estrogen does not cause breast cancer and may even be protective. It’s a key resource for women and clinicians who need to undo WHI-induced fear.

You had a blooming on your show and he has a great book called estrogen matters. He's an oncologist who's questioning a lot of this research.

Find Estrogen

The New Menopause by Mary Claire Haver

Book

Called the most popular menopause book right now, a comprehensive guide.

Mary Claire Haver has the most popular book called The New Menopause.

Find The

Menopause Manifesto by Dr. Jen Gunter

Book

Another evidence-based book mentioned as part of the menopause movement.

There's one called the Menopause Manifesto.

Find Menopause

Menopause Society provider directory (menopause.org)

Service

Rubin directs patients to this website to find clinicians who have at least taken a certification test in menopause. It does not guarantee expertise but is a starting point.

She acknowledges that being on the website means someone put effort into learning menopause medicine, but the shortage is still huge—only about 3,000 providers for 84 million women over 40. She encourages women to educate themselves and build a ‘pit crew’ of doctors rather than relying on a single gatekeeper.

Menopause.org is the menopause society website. That doesn't guarantee you have someone who knows everything but menopause.org means somebody took a test and put some effort into saying I care about menopause.

Find Menopause

ISSWSH provider directory (isswsh.org)

Service

The International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health has a directory of clinicians who specialize in menopausal sexual health and testosterone therapy.

Rubin highlights this as the professional home of experts in female sexual dysfunction and the source of the global consensus guidelines on testosterone. She advises women to look here for a provider who understands the sexual health piece, which most menopause-certified docs may not.

Isswish iss.org is the women's sexual health society. So people who we care about menopause and sexual health.

Find ISSWSH

Estrace vaginal cream (estradiol 0.01%)

Product

Low-dose local vaginal estrogen cream. $13 a tube via GoodRx or Mark Cuban's pharmacy. Should be used by any woman with GSM to prevent UTIs and atrophy.

Rubin emphasizes that the price has dropped dramatically thanks to pricing disruptors like Mark Cuban, who she says 'knows more about vaginal estrogen than 90% of doctors.' It is safe for everyone—even those with blood clots or breast cancer—despite the false black box warning.

Personal experience

Rubin fought to get Estrace for her own mother in the ICU.

A tube of estrogen is $13.

Find Estrace

Intrarosa (vaginal DHEA inserts)

Product

The only FDA-approved vaginal DHEA product. A nightly insert that provides local androgen and estrogen activity, reducing UTIs and treating GSM when estrogen alone is insufficient.

Rubin recently published a study showing Intrarosa reduces UTI risk by more than half, similar to vaginal estrogen. She loves it for women with persistent urinary urgency or vestibulodynia and wishes it were more accessible.

vs alternatives

Compared to estradiol cream, it adds an androgen component, which may be crucial for the vulvar vestibule and bladder. However, it is often harder to get covered by insurance.

We just published in the menopause journal that it shows the same decreased risk of UTI by more than half.

Find Intrarosa

Femring (estradiol vaginal ring for systemic use)

Product

A systemic estradiol vaginal ring changed every 3 months. Rubin loves it for perimenopausal women with an IUD—it provides set-it-and-forget-it systemic estrogen plus local vaginal benefits. Available in 0.05 and 0.1 mg/day doses. Cash price around $180.

Rubin notes that Femring often ‘peters out’ in the last month, and she will sometimes add a patch for the final weeks or check a level to confirm. She also warns about the Femring vs. Estring confusion: Estring is a low-dose local ring not for systemic symptoms. Some women cannot retain the ring due to prolapse, and athletes may lose it during a bowel movement.

vs alternatives

Compared to patches, it avoids adhesive issues and is preferred by women who don’t want a daily routine. However, it is more expensive and may require backup near the end of the cycle.

What's nice about the ring is you set it and forget it... you put it in the vagina, the vagina does not feel it like a tampon, you don't feel it, and it just stays in for 3 months at a time.

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Testim 1% testosterone gel (off-label for women)

Product

FDA-approved for men, but Rubin uses it off-label for women. One 5-mL tube of 1% gel is used over ~10 days—a pea-sized amount applied to the calf daily.

This is the workhorse testosterone product for women in Rubin’s practice. She notes it is alcohol-based, so must not be applied to genitals. She prefers it over pellets and compounded creams because it is a regulated product with known dose uniformity.

vs alternatives

Versus pellets: much lower level, can be stopped if side effects occur. Versus compounded testosterone cream: FDA-regulated, consistent dosing. Versus Natesto nasal gel: nobody likes nasal administration.

I tell my patients, use a blob or 0.5 mls. So they can put it in a syringe if they want to and dose out that 5 mls. They take a blob, they rub it on their calf every day.

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Build a 'pit crew' of doctors and self-advocate

Practice

Rubin advises women to assemble a multidisciplinary team (gynecologist, menopause specialist, sexual medicine expert, cardiologist, bone doctor) and to fire any doctor who says ‘you can’t have that’ without a thoughtful conversation.

She likens it to a Formula One pit crew—you, the patient, are the driver, and you pick the team. No single doctor should have veto power over your quality of life. She wants women to know the menu of options so they can make informed decisions about their own risks and priorities, whether that’s avoiding Alzheimer’s, osteoporosis, or sexual dysfunction.

Your oncologist is not in charge of you. They don't tell you. They give you advice. It's like a pit crew... you get to decide who's on your pit crew.

Also said
“When you give women information about how their bodies work, they make great decisions for themselves.”— Empowerment principle underlying the pit crew concept.
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Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

6 items
If a penis shriveled up at age 52, we'd probably have a vaccine sponsored by Pfizer.
A razor-sharp, unforgettable analogy highlighting the gender gap in sexual medicine.
Your gas tank is officially empty. There's not much in the tank. Perry menopause is this time where it's very erratic. The gas tank is over full and then it goes to empty really quickly without warning.
Her signature analogy that makes menopause and perimenopause instantly understandable.
We're killing women by trying to protect them.
Sums up the deadly absurdity of the FDA’s black-box warnings on vaginal estrogen.
Menopause is killing men. ... Men who are divorced, single or widowed have horrible health outcomes. ... If men's health doctors truly cared about keeping men alive, they would do menopause medicine.
A provocative reframe that makes menopause a men’s longevity issue too.
I had to do all this being one of the leading educators on this topic. What does everybody else do?
Her personal story of battling the system to get vaginal estrogen for her dying mother—chilling proof of the education vacuum.
Less than 4% of women are on hormone therapy right now. That's worse than 10 years ago. It is so bad out there.
A stark statistic that quantifies the collapse of menopause care, even after widespread advocacy.

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Topics covered

menopause-physiologyperimenopausehormone-replacement-therapywomen-health-initiativetestosterone-womengenitourinary-syndromevaginal-estrogenvaginal-dheaprogesteroneestradiol-formulationslab-testing-lcmsbrain-fogbreast-cancertiming-hypothesissexual-healthpellet-therapycompounding-pharmacypatient-advocacy
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Educational summary of the cited expert source — not medical advice. Open the source recording linked above and consult a qualified physician before acting on any protocol.