UNFUCG
DashboardSearchChatBookmarksNotificationsActivityPremiumProfile
?
Home
Search
Chat
Saved
Profile
Episode
Cardio vs Strength Is a Myth and the Science Proves It - Alyssa Olenick| GLS #216
~175 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

Cardio vs Strength Is a Myth and the Science Proves It - Alyssa Olenick| GLS #216

Gabrielle Lyon
Watch on YouTube Add to chat My bookmarks← All sources

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Alyssa Olenick promotes 'hybrid is health' — combining resistance and cardiovascular training — as the optimal fitness model, not a choice between them, and uses the term 'hybrid' as a Trojan horse to get people to do both.

2

She argues that walking is insufficient for building muscle or bone; adequate loading and impact (e.g., squats, jumps) are required, and power training is crucial to combat 'powerpenia' as we age.

3

Women do not need fundamentally different training programs than men; individual variability and training history matter more than sex differences, though bone loading and power become especially critical for women.

4

Beginners should start with whatever they're willing to do, then gradually integrate both modalities; she even recommends a full year of dedicated lifting and eating to build a muscular foundation.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

5 items

Concurrent training split

WhatPerform both resistance training (2-3 days/week) and cardiovascular exercise (at least 150 min moderate or 75 min vigorous/week), structuring sessions to minimize interference.
WhenWeekly, with separation of high-intensity cardio and heavy strength sessions by at least a day, or using lower-impact modes like cycling for cardio.
DoseResistance: 2-3 full-body sessions; Cardio: 150+ min moderate or 75+ min vigorous, plus one high-intensity interval session (15-30 min).
For whomAll healthy adults; beginners can start with one modality and add the other.
WhyCombining both modalities yields the best health outcomes (muscle, bone, cardiovascular) and reduces all-cause mortality risk.
CaveatsIf performance in one modality is dropping (e.g., bar speed slows), consider a season of emphasis or adjust nutrition.

Alyssa repeatedly emphasizes that the exercise guidelines already include both resistance and aerobic activity, and doing more than the minimum brings further benefits. She uses the term 'hybrid' but clarifies it's just concurrent training. The key is to program both consistently, but not necessarily at equal volumes. She uses a 'seasons' approach herself, where she periodizes emphasis on strength or endurance while maintaining the other. For those worried about interference, she suggests separating intense sessions, fueling properly, and paying attention to performance metrics like bar speed.

Mechanism

Concurrent training leads to adaptations in both the mTOR-driven anabolic pathway and the AMPK/PGC-1α-driven mitochondrial biogenesis pathway. The so-called interference effect is largely due to CNS fatigue and resource competition, not a complete block of either pathway.

Personal experience

She personally runs ultramarathons while maintaining competitive lifting, using seasons to prioritize one over the other and keeping year-round resistance training.

I use hybrid training kind of as my Trojan horse of getting people to do cardiovascular and resistance training, but it's really just concurrent training.

Also said
“The best health benefits come from a fitness training program that encompasses both in some capacity.”— Reinforces the core rationale.

Plyometric/power training

WhatInclude jumping, hopping, skipping, or moving weight rapidly (e.g., kettlebell swings, speed squats) to load bones and improve power.
When1-2 times per week, integrated into warm-ups or between sets.
DoseStart with 50 low-impact hops (e.g., pogo hops) per session, building to 100; for weight-based power, use 60-70% 1RM, 3-5 reps, fast.
For whomAll adults, especially women and anyone at risk of osteoporosis; those with pelvic floor issues or injuries should start with low-impact options.
WhyBone responds to high-impact loading and rate of force development; power declines faster than strength with age (powerpenia).
CaveatsBuild volume gradually; avoid high-risk movements if you have knee or back problems; consult a professional if needed.

Alyssa explains that even simple pogo hops (gentle double-leg hops) performed a few times a week can improve bone density in postmenopausal women. Running provides some impact but not as much as dedicated jumping. She groups power training under the same umbrella because it's also about moving weight quickly, which stresses bones and muscles differently than slow, heavy lifting. She recommends starting with the simplest form (double-leg hops) and progressing to single-leg or box jumps over time. The goal is to maintain or improve the ability to produce force rapidly, which is critical for fall prevention.

Mechanism

High-impact forces create strain on bone, stimulating osteoblast activity and bone remodeling. Fast movements recruit high-threshold motor units and improve neural drive, preserving type II muscle fibers.

Personal experience

She incorporates kettlebell swings and plyometrics into her own training, and she's observed that her bone density fluctuates with training cycles, always remaining high.

I'm sure you've heard like the new term is powerpenia. We start to lose power faster than we lose strength as we age.

Also said
“Even like really simple things like pogo hops like sets of 10 across a year improves bone density in postmenopausal women.”— Provides a concrete, research-backed minimal dose.

High-intensity interval training (HIIT) dose

WhatInclude at least one session per week of high-intensity intervals (above lactate threshold) lasting 15-30 minutes total.
WhenOnce per week, on a day separate from heavy leg days or when you don't need maximal strength the next day.
Dose15-30 minutes including warm-up and rest; e.g., 4x4 min at hard effort, or 10x30 sec sprints with recovery.
For whomEveryone, scaling to fitness level; beginners can start with moderate intensity and build up.
WhyHigher intensity creates a greater cellular energy deficit and drives faster mitochondrial and cardiovascular adaptations than moderate-intensity alone.
CaveatsToo many high-intensity sessions per week leads to quality loss; more is not better.

Alyssa notes that the exercise guidelines allow for either 150 min moderate or 75 min vigorous, and vigorous activity yields a greater health benefit per unit time. She believes that even one high-intensity session per week can significantly improve fitness, especially for those who are not doing a lot of cardio. She distinguishes between HIIT and sprint interval training, but both work. The key is to push above the lactate threshold, which is a marker of the physiological stress needed to drive adaptations. She warns against 'junk training' where women do many moderate-intensity group classes without enough intensity to drive meaningful change.

Mechanism

High-intensity exercise creates a large AMPK signal, stimulating mitochondrial biogenesis and improving metabolic flexibility. It also improves cardiovascular function and lactate clearance.

Personal experience

She uses a mix of HIIT and sprint intervals in her own training, adjusting based on her nervous system state.

I think everyone should do at least one day a week of higher intensity training, whether that's HIIT, sprint interval training, threshold training... something that's pushing you above that zone 4 to zone 5 plus.

Also said
“The more intense you do it, the less you have to do.”— Summarizes the efficiency argument.

Concurrent training nutrition

WhatConsume enough calories, especially carbohydrates, to support training demands; aim for 1.6-2.2 g/kg protein daily; use intra-workout carbs for endurance sessions >60 min.
WhenDaily, with adjustments based on training volume; intra-workout fueling during long runs or rides.
DoseProtein: 1.6-2.2 g/kg/day; Carbs: 300-400 g/day for moderate concurrent training, up to 500-600 g for high-volume endurance; intra-workout carbs: 60-90 g/hour.
For whomAnyone doing concurrent training, especially those with higher endurance volumes; female athletes at risk of low energy availability.
WhyCarbohydrates are protein-sparing; inadequate intake leads to muscle breakdown and hormonal dysfunction (RED-S).
CaveatsAvoid under-eating; increase carbs gradually as training volume increases. Monitor menstrual cycle changes as a warning sign.

Alyssa explains that when you add endurance to resistance training, carbohydrate demand increases significantly. Carbs are protein-sparing: if you don't eat enough, your body will break down muscle for energy. She personally struggles to eat enough carbs, finding it easy to overeat fat instead. She recommends intra-workout carbs (60-90 g/hr) for sessions over an hour, and a post-run protein shake to kickstart recovery. She also touches on RED-S, noting that even active women who don't consider themselves athletes can fall into energy deficits, and that early warning signs include changes in cycle length or lighter periods, not just amenorrhea.

Mechanism

Carbohydrate intake during exercise maintains blood glucose, spares glycogen, and reduces cortisol and muscle protein breakdown. Adequate energy availability preserves hypothalamic-pituitary-ovarian axis function.

Personal experience

She eats 120-140 g protein daily at 141 lbs, and ramps up carbs to 500-600 g during peak ultra training. She drinks a protein shake immediately after long runs and uses EAAs when gut issues prevent eating.

Carbs are protein sparing. Also, your body isn't going to want to pull from carbs to fuel anything or recover from or break down muscle tissue if they have enough of that.

Also said
“So many women are conditioned to like be afraid of eating more carbohydrate or calories... they just have never been in a position where they needed it to fuel.”— Addresses a psychological barrier specific to women.

Beginner integration plan

WhatStart with the modality you are most comfortable with (cardio or resistance), then add the other within weeks to months, and set a concrete athletic goal.
WhenImmediately upon starting, with a long-term plan to include both.
DoseStart with 1-2 sessions/week of the chosen modality; build to 2-3 resistance + 2-3 cardio sessions over 3-6 months.
For whomComplete beginners, especially women who feel overwhelmed or intimidated by the gym.
WhyReduces intimidation, builds habit, and ensures adequate stimulus for adaptations over time.
CaveatsDon't wait too long to add the missing modality; muscle and bone need loading, and cardiovascular health needs conditioning.

Alyssa emphasizes that beginners often feel like they have to do everything perfectly from day one, which leads to burnout. She gives them permission to start with one, but urges them to have a roadmap. She suggests that if someone is afraid of the weight room, they can start with cardio and observe the gym, then gradually incorporate resistance training. Conversely, if someone has no strength base, they can focus on lifting for a few months before adding cardio. Setting a performance goal (e.g., deadlift bodyweight) is a powerful way to ensure training intensity is high enough and to make fitness fun.

Personal experience

She has beginner programs in her own offerings and tailors this advice to the many women who reach out to her.

You can start with a cardio program and a resistance training program, but like what will you start with and what will get you in the gym and what will get you moving?

Also said
“I think beginners should start where they're willing, what feels the most realistic, most accessible, but then have a plan long term to start integrating the two together.”— Captures the flexible yet purposeful approach.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

5 items

Walking is not enough

She asserts that walking, while beneficial, does not provide sufficient stimulus for muscle growth, bone density, or significant cardiovascular adaptations.

Why this matters: She publicly made this statement and faced backlash, but stands by it, emphasizing the need for a stressor beyond baseline movement.

Background

Many people conflate movement with exercise, and the popular narrative sometimes suggests that simply walking is enough for health. Alyssa draws a line between movement, exercise, and training.

Alyssa differentiates between movement, exercise, and training. Movement is any activity, which is net positive, but to get specific adaptations — muscle hypertrophy, bone strengthening, cardiovascular improvements — you need a stressor that exceeds the body's baseline. Walking does not provide enough load or impact for bone or muscle, and for many, it doesn't elevate heart rate enough to drive cardiovascular adaptation. She uses this as a reason to push people toward resistance training and higher-intensity activity.

Personal experience

She saw the backlash when she said 'walking is not enough' on a friend's podcast, with people sending her the clip repeatedly.

Walking is not enough for bone. It's not enough for muscle growth.

Also said
“All movement is good and it's going to be net productive for any health measure. But if we want specific adaptations to muscle, bone, cardiovascular system adaptations, you do need enough of a stressor and a stimulus to drive that adaptation.”— Clarifies the nuanced position, not dismissing walking entirely.

Estrogen is not the primary driver of muscle

She pushes back against the narrative that estrogen loss directly causes muscle loss in menopause, arguing that resistance training is the main stimulus and the data don't support estrogen as a strong anabolic driver.

Why this matters: This is a contrarian stance in the current women's health space, which often emphasizes estrogen's role in muscle maintenance.

Background

Many women are told that premenopausal estrogen protects muscle, and its decline is the cause of age-related muscle loss. Alyssa challenges this, noting that if estrogen were that powerful, adding it back would fully restore muscle, which it doesn't.

She explains that while there are estrogen receptors in muscle, the evidence for estrogen driving significant muscle protein synthesis is weak. If estrogen were a robust anabolic stimulus, hormone replacement therapy would have a dramatic effect on muscle mass, but the studies show that resistance training is the primary driver, even in postmenopausal women. The overlap of aging and menopause makes it hard to disentangle, but the key message is that women should not feel doomed by hormonal changes; they can build and maintain muscle through proper training.

If estrogen had such a stimulus on that or was so robust then we would see that when you add back estrogen that all of that muscle loss was completely regained or there was this significant meaningful boost in it. Really what we see is the main driver in stimulus even for menopausal women is the resistance training.

Also said
“The narrative that's being pushed to women is like you have estrogen premenopausally, so you have muscle and then it goes away and then you don't have muscle. That's the narrative that's being at least from what I'm seeing, and it makes no sense.”— Shows her direct pushback against the popular narrative.

Women's training triad

She introduces her own framework for female health and performance: a foundation of strength, then power (plyometrics, moving weight fast), and on top, cardiovascular training.

Why this matters: It's a novel, structured model that integrates three often-separated fitness components, specifically aimed at women's longevity.

Background

Women often focus on cardio or light resistance, missing bone-loading and power. Alyssa's triad addresses the need for force production and impact to combat bone density loss and powerpenia.

The triad is built on the idea that strength and power are complementary. Strength provides the base (muscle mass, force production), power adds the speed component (ability to react quickly, catch yourself from a fall), and cardio provides the metabolic health and mitochondrial adaptations. She emphasizes that power training can be as simple as hopping or moving weight fast, and it doesn't have to be a separate session; it can be integrated into a warm-up or between sets. The model is designed to be scalable and to counteract the typical underloading that women do.

Personal experience

She herself incorporates kettlebell swings, thrusters, and plyometrics as part of her power work, and sees it as essential for her own bone density and performance.

I call it the women's training triad... the base is strength and power and the top is aerobic training.

Also said
“I kind of bucket them all in together because... we start to lose power faster than we lose strength as we age.”— Explains the urgency of including power training.

Interference effect is mainly CNS fatigue

She argues that the blunting of strength gains when combining cardio and lifting is mostly due to central nervous system fatigue carryover, not just the AMPK-mTOR cellular pathway, and that mode matters (running vs cycling).

Why this matters: She shifts the focus from the often-cited cellular interference to a more practical, trainable mechanism, giving people actionable ways to minimize it.

Background

The classic Hickinson 1980 study and subsequent research on AMPK blocking mTOR created a fear of concurrent training. Alyssa clarifies that the real-world impact for most people is minimal, and the primary issue is fatigue reducing lifting performance.

Alyssa explains that while there is a cellular pathway—endurance training activates AMPK, which can downregulate mTOR—this is not a 100% block. The bigger issue is that a hard cardio session leaves you fatigued, so you can't lift as heavy or as powerfully in a subsequent session, reducing the training stimulus. This is why mode matters: running is more CNS-demanding than cycling. She suggests separating sessions, using lower-impact modes, and ensuring adequate nutrition to mitigate this. For most non-elite individuals, the interference effect is not a significant concern.

Personal experience

She notices that if she runs before lifting, her 'brain state is not there' to go all out, and the same weights feel heavier.

I'm a little bit more of the take that most of the issue for most people comes down to central nervous system fatigue. So there's carryover of fatigue from an endurance training session that then when you go to the gym, you're not able to lift as heavy.

Also said
“It does appear that modes of training like running tend to be a little bit more demanding on the central nervous system versus if you were to bike... you might see less of a magnitude of that blunting.”— Adds the practical mode distinction.

Flexible beginner approach

She advocates that beginners should start with whatever they are willing to do, not try to do everything perfectly, and then gradually add the other modality.

Why this matters: It counters the common 'all or nothing' pressure and provides a realistic, psychologically safe entry point.

Background

Many beginners are intimidated by either the weight room or cardio, and are told they must do both from day one. Alyssa gives them permission to start with one and build.

She acknowledges that being a beginner is hard, both physiologically and mentally. For someone intimidated by lifting, she suggests starting with cardio to get comfortable in the gym, then adding resistance training. For someone with no strength baseline, she suggests focusing on resistance training first, even for a month or two, before adding cardio. The key is to have a long-term plan to integrate both, because both are essential for health. She also recommends setting a concrete athletic goal (like deadlifting bodyweight) to make training purposeful and ensure adequate intensity.

I have a stance in my fitness philosophy that I love beginners and I want to get to them before everyone else gets to them and gives them all the things that distracts them.

Also said
“You can start with a cardio program and a resistance training program, but like what will you start with and what will get you in the gym and what will get you moving?”— Shows her practical, meeting-them-where-they-are style.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

3 items

Essential Amino Acids (EAAs)

Supplement

Alyssa used EAAs during her PhD when gut issues prevented her from eating enough before training, and she sees them as a useful tool for endurance athletes to prevent muscle breakdown during long sessions.

She explains that during long endurance events, the body can start to break down muscle protein for energy if carbohydrate availability is low. EAAs can provide an alternative amino acid source, potentially reducing muscle catabolism. She used them herself when she couldn't eat solid food in the mornings, and she notes that some gels historically included amino acids because of their interaction with brain fatigue. She currently doesn't use them regularly, but recommends them as a strategy for those struggling to fuel adequately.

vs alternatives

Compared to whole protein, EAAs are absorbed faster and require no digestion, making them ideal for intra-workout use when GI distress is a concern.

Personal experience

I did take essential amino acids during that just so I had some amino acids available.

I did take essential amino acids during that just so I had some amino acids available.

Also said
“It would be great because honestly like that I'm not so much worried about like muscle loss when it comes to my training... but in an event like that... you want some protein.”— Shows another context where EAAs would be beneficial.
Find Essential

Carbohydrate gels

Product

Alyssa uses carbohydrate gels for fueling during long runs and races, and recommends them for endurance athletes to maintain energy levels and spare protein.

She personally consumes 60-90 grams of carbs per hour on long runs using gels. She notes that the amount she can tolerate depends on intensity (more at lower intensity). Gels are a convenient way to hit those high carbohydrate targets without GI distress, though she also stresses the importance of real food. She used gels in her recent ultra but found that she needed more real food to avoid depletion.

vs alternatives

Gels are more convenient than solid food during high-intensity efforts, but may not be sufficient for ultra-endurance events where real food becomes necessary for satiety and sustained energy.

Personal experience

I'm really big on carbohydrate feeding for endurance activity. So I get between 60 and 90 grams of carbs per hour on my long runs.

I'm really big on carbohydrate feeding for endurance activity. So I get between 60 and 90 grams of carbs per hour on my long runs.

Find Carbohydrate

Protein shake

Product

She drinks a protein shake immediately after long runs to provide amino acids for recovery, especially when concurrent training demands are high.

She emphasizes that while total daily protein intake matters most, getting protein in quickly after a long endurance session helps kickstart muscle repair and reduces the muscle loss that can occur from the catabolic nature of endurance training. It's a practical strategy for hybrid athletes.

vs alternatives

A protein shake is more convenient than whole food immediately post-exercise, especially when appetite is suppressed.

Personal experience

I always bring like a protein shake with me. So as soon as I finish my long run, I drink that so I immediately have protein.

I always bring like a protein shake with me. So as soon as I finish my long run, I drink that so I immediately have protein.

Find Protein

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

4 items
Walking is not enough for bone. It's not enough for muscle growth.
A bold, direct statement that challenges a common belief and sparked controversy.
I'm not going to talk to you like you're stupid. And I'm also not going to talk to you like you're broken.
Reflects her commitment to empowering women rather than fostering fragility.
Spend a year eating and lifting and it will change so much in your life.
A simple, powerful prescription that cuts through the noise of quick fixes.
There's a spectrum of movement to exercise to training. If we want specific adaptations, you need enough of a stressor and a stimulus to drive that adaptation.
Clearly defines the hierarchy of activity and why intensity matters.

Sign in to share feedback

Tell us if this brief hit the mark or missed it — feedback feeds back into the next iteration of the prompt.

Topics covered

hybrid-trainingconcurrent-traininginterference-effectfat-oxidationmetabolic-flexibilitysex-differencesestrogen-muscle-narrativemenstrual-cycle-trainingbone-densitypower-trainingplyometricsresistance-training-guidelineshigh-intensity-interval-trainingzone-2protein-for-enduranceredswomen-strength-trainingbeginners
Free account

Make this library yours

Reading is free for everyone. A free account adds the personal layer: save protocols, follow experts, and see how the other experts weigh in on this same topic.

Create a free accountSign in

Where the experts disagree — weekly

One email a week: the sharpest new disagreements and protocols from the library. No spam, unsubscribe anytime.

Educational summary of the cited expert source — not medical advice. Open the source recording linked above and consult a qualified physician before acting on any protocol.