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Episode
Normal Cholesterol But Still Getting Heart Disease? Here's Why | Dr. Mark Hyman
~33 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

Normal Cholesterol But Still Getting Heart Disease? Here's Why | Dr. Mark Hyman

Mark Hyman
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Traditional cholesterol tests (total LDL) are insufficient; advanced markers like ApoB, Lp(a), HSCRP, and fasting insulin are crucial for assessing true heart disease risk.

2

Heart disease is primarily a metabolic and inflammatory disease, driven by sugar and refined starches, leading to insulin resistance and small, dense LDL particles, rather than dietary fat.

3

93.2% of Americans have some degree of metabolic dysfunction, even those with normal weight (TOFI - Thin Outside, Fat Inside), making lifestyle interventions like diet, exercise, stress management, and sleep paramount.

4

Key interventions include eliminating sugar and refined starches, eating whole anti-inflammatory foods, regular exercise (strength and cardio), stress regulation, adequate sleep, and targeted supplements like omega-3s, multivitamins, CoQ10, and magnesium.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

6 items

Comprehensive Heart Health Testing

WhatUndergo advanced lab tests beyond standard cholesterol panels to assess true heart disease risk.
DoseAnnually (for Function Health members to track trends)
For whomAnyone concerned about heart disease, especially those with 'normal' LDL but other risk factors, or those on statins.
WhyStandard tests are insufficient; advanced markers provide a more accurate picture of metabolic health, inflammation, and particle characteristics that drive heart disease.
CaveatsDoctors may not order these tests; Function Health offers them. Calcium score is an imaging test, not a blood test.

Dr. Hyman strongly advocates for a comprehensive panel of tests that go beyond the typical total cholesterol and LDL measurements. He emphasizes that these standard tests only provide a 'weight' of cholesterol, not the crucial details about particle number, size, and quality. The recommended tests include ApoB, which is a surrogate marker for poor metabolic health and indicates the number of damaging cholesterol particles. Lipoprotein(a) or Lp(a) is a genetic marker affecting 20% of the population and is an independent risk factor. High-sensitivity C-reactive protein (HSCRP) measures inflammation, a key driver of heart disease. Fasting insulin is critical for assessing insulin resistance, which he considers one of the most important tests for health and longevity, yet it's rarely ordered. He also recommends lipoprotein fractionation to analyze LDL particle size and number, and the triglyceride-to-HDL ratio as a simple indicator of insulin resistance. Finally, a calcium score is suggested as a baseline imaging test to directly check for plaque development in arteries.

Mechanism

ApoB measures the total number of atherogenic particles. Lp(a) is a genetic risk factor that promotes clotting and inflammation. HSCRP indicates systemic inflammation. Fasting insulin directly measures insulin resistance, a root cause of metabolic dysfunction. Lipoprotein fractionation differentiates between large, benign LDL particles and small, dense, damaging ones. The triglyceride/HDL ratio is a proxy for insulin resistance, as high triglycerides and low HDL are characteristic of this condition.

Personal experience

I've had people with the worst cholesterol profiles you could possibly imagine. And they have completely clean arteries. You have to to actually image to figure out what's going on.

The tests you want to get are apolipoprotein b or apoB, lipoprotein little a, HSCRP, fasting insulin. Of course, you want to know your triglyceride and HDL ratio. And also, would really recommend a lipoprotein fractionation.

Also said
“Again, asked a question. How many tests that you get from doctors around the country include insulin? It's like less than one percent. Never checked. Almost never checked. It's probably the most important test for understanding your health and longevity.”— Highlights the critical but often overlooked nature of fasting insulin testing.
“And then a calcium score, which I think is important for most people as a baseline. Again, we offer that through Function Health, through our partner Ezra, which you can do imaging. It's very cheap, very quick, very safe, and you get a quick idea of whether or not you have plaque development, and then you can manage it.”— Introduces a direct imaging test for plaque, complementing blood tests.

Dietary Intervention: Eliminate Sugar and Refined Starches

WhatStrictly reduce or eliminate sugar and refined starches from the diet.
WhySugar and refined starches are the primary drivers of metabolic dysfunction, insulin resistance, and inflammation, which are the root causes of heart disease.

Dr. Hyman unequivocally states that sugar and refined starches are the 'boogeyman,' not fat, when it comes to heart disease. He explains that these carbohydrates lead to insulin resistance, which in turn drives inflammation and the production of small, dense LDL particles. He defines 'sugar' broadly to include anything with sugar or starch, such as bread, rice, and potatoes, especially for susceptible individuals. He notes that 60% of American calories come from junk food, and the average American consumes a pound of sugar and flour daily. This excessive intake promotes the deposition of visceral fat (belly fat), which is metabolically active and spews out inflammatory compounds, further oxidizing LDL and damaging blood vessels. He advises treating sugar like a 'recreational drug' due to its detrimental effects.

Mechanism

High intake of sugar and refined starches leads to elevated blood glucose, triggering increased insulin production. Chronic high insulin levels cause cells to become resistant to insulin's effects (insulin resistance). This metabolic state promotes the formation of small, dense LDL particles, increases triglycerides, lowers HDL, and drives systemic inflammation, all contributing to atherosclerosis.

Personal experience

When I went to Italy, you know, last summer, I kinda went crazy, and I had, you know, wine, and I had lots of pasta and whatever, bread, and I gained, like, five or 10 pounds, and it went right to my belly. And then as soon as I came home, it went right away because I went back to my basic habits.

The second thing you wanna do is is eat in a way that lowers inflammation and helps to correct insulin resistance. How do you do that? Cut out the biggest source of both, which is sugar and starch. Refined starches.

Also said
“It's sugar, not fat, that's causing you to die of heart attacks. It's sugar, not fat, that's the problem.”— Directly identifies sugar as the primary culprit.
“The biggest driver of inflammation in our society is our starch and sugary diet. 60% of our calories is junk food.”— Quantifies the dietary problem in American society.
“Think of sugar as a recreational drug.”— Provides a memorable analogy for how to view sugar.

Adopt a Whole Foods, Anti-Inflammatory Diet

WhatFocus on eating whole, unprocessed foods, rich in colorful fruits, vegetables, and healthy fats.
WhyThis dietary approach lowers inflammation, supports metabolic health, and provides essential nutrients.

Beyond simply cutting out sugar and starches, Dr. Hyman emphasizes the importance of actively consuming a diet composed of whole, unprocessed foods. This includes a wide variety of colorful fruits and vegetables, which are rich in antioxidants and anti-inflammatory compounds. He also advocates for 'good fats,' aligning with his view that dietary fat is not the primary problem. The goal is to create an anti-inflammatory, low-glycemic eating pattern that supports overall metabolic health. He explicitly states that ultra-processed foods are 'not even food' because they do not support health and should be eliminated.

Eat more whole foods. Eat more anti inflammatory foods. Lots of colorful fruits and vegetables. Lots of omega three fats. Get rid of ultra processed food. They're not even food.

Also said
“Food is defined as something that supports the health and development and growth of an organism. Ultra processed food does the exact opposite. So it technically isn't even food.”— Provides a strong rationale for avoiding ultra-processed foods.

Regular Exercise (Strength and Cardio)

WhatIncorporate both strength training and cardiovascular exercise into daily routine.
WhyExercise builds muscle, lowers ApoB, corrects insulin resistance, and improves overall metabolic health.

Dr. Hyman highlights exercise as a critical lifestyle intervention. He specifically mentions strength training, noting his own commitment to it despite the difficulty, because it helps build muscle. Muscle acts as a 'sink' for glucose, improving insulin sensitivity and lowering ApoB levels. He also stresses that cardio exercise is important, indicating a balanced approach to physical activity is beneficial for heart health and metabolic regulation. Regular movement throughout the day, including getting steps in, is also encouraged.

Personal experience

Was in the gym this morning for an hour. It was really painful. My trainer was crushing me, but I know it's helping me. And it helps to build muscle. It helps lower APOB. Corrects insulin resistance. Your muscles become a better sync.

Next, you know, work on your lifestyle. Exercise, building muscle. Really important.

Also said
“Also, strength training is not the only thing. Cardio is also important.”— Emphasizes the need for a balanced exercise regimen.

Stress Management and Adequate Sleep

WhatActively manage stress and prioritize sufficient, quality sleep.
WhyStress and poor sleep negatively impact metabolic health and inflammation, contributing to heart disease risk.

Learning to regulate stress because that can also affect heart disease risk. Sleep, really important. All those things are really important.

Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM)

WhatUse a continuous glucose monitor for a period to understand individual food responses.
For whomEveryone, at least for a short period.
WhyCGMs provide real-time data on how different foods affect blood sugar, allowing for personalized dietary adjustments.

Dr. Hyman highly recommends using a continuous glucose monitor (CGM), even if only for a short duration. He believes CGMs are invaluable tools for understanding one's unique metabolic response to various foods. By observing how blood sugar levels fluctuate after eating specific items, individuals can identify which foods cause spikes and which are well-tolerated. This personalized feedback empowers people to modify their diet effectively, moving beyond generic advice to make choices that are optimal for their own body's physiology. He states that this real-time data is a much better predictor of heart disease risk than a static blood sugar measurement.

I really love those because they can help you understand what's happening and how your different foods affect you. And and everybody needs to do this at least for a short period of time.

Also said
“Because when you understand what your body's doing and how it's reacting to different foods, then you can modify your diet.”— Explains the practical benefit of CGM for dietary modification.
“It's much better predict your heart disease risk than just a static blood sugar.”— Highlights CGM's superiority over traditional blood sugar tests for risk prediction.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

4 items

Cholesterol's role in heart disease

0:40

The traditional view of cholesterol as the primary cause of heart disease is outdated; it's now understood as a bystander in a process driven by metabolic dysfunction and inflammation.

Why this matters: This represents a significant shift from conventional medical understanding, challenging the long-held belief that high LDL cholesterol is the direct cause of heart attacks.

Background

For decades, cholesterol, particularly LDL, was considered the main enemy, leading to recommendations for low-fat diets and statin use. Doctors were trained to lower LDL at all costs.

Dr. Hyman explains that his own understanding of cholesterol and heart disease has evolved significantly. He was initially trained, like most doctors, to believe that high LDL directly caused heart attacks and that lowering it was the primary goal. However, clinical experience and emerging research have revealed a more nuanced picture. He points out that nearly half of people who have heart attacks have 'normal' LDL levels, and a study of 136,000 ER patients found 75% had normal LDL. This discrepancy led him to question the prevailing paradigm. He now views cholesterol as a 'bystander' in a process primarily driven by metabolic and inflammatory issues, rather than the root cause itself.

Personal experience

I got trained like every other doctor that LDL was the issue, that you had a high cholesterol, high LDL, that causes heart attacks, cause and effect. And the goal was to lower your LDL no matter what at all costs. Get it as low as possible.

I've changed my mind about over the years, cholesterol and heart disease. Now heart disease is the number one killer of Americans since the nineteen fifties, and yet so many are still approaching it with the same outdated framework that we used for decades.

Also said
“We've treated cholesterol like a villain, but the truth is really way more nuanced.”— Emphasizes the oversimplification of past views.
“Cholesterol is just a bystander in this whole process.”— Directly states the new understanding of cholesterol's role.

The true drivers of heart disease: Metabolic dysfunction and inflammation

4:50

Heart disease is primarily caused by metabolic dysfunction (insulin resistance, prediabetes) and chronic inflammation, which lead to the formation of small, dense, oxidized LDL particles that damage arteries.

Why this matters: This reframes heart disease from a lipid problem to a metabolic and inflammatory one, shifting focus from dietary fat to sugar and refined carbohydrates.

Background

The traditional model focused on total cholesterol and LDL levels. New science highlights that inflammation, identified in the late 1990s/early 2000s, plays a critical role, even more so than cholesterol levels alone.

Dr. Hyman asserts that the real problem causing the heart disease epidemic is metabolic dysfunction, which encompasses prediabetes and insulin resistance. This condition arises from diets high in starch and sugar, lack of exercise, and excess belly fat. Insulin resistance leads to 'atherogenic dyslipidemia,' characterized by small, dense cholesterol particles that are prone to oxidation and inflammation. These small, dense particles, rather than cholesterol itself, are what damage artery linings and form plaque. He cites research showing that inflammation, measured by HSCRP, can be a more important predictor of heart disease than LDL. The primary driver of this inflammation, he argues, is the modern diet rich in sugar and refined starches, which constitute 60% of American calories.

The real problem is what we call metabolic dysfunction. This means prediabetes, insulin resistance, anywhere along the spectrum where your body is not dealing with sugar and insulin very well because you're eating this high starch and sugar diet, and you're not exercising, or you have extra belly fat.

Also said
“It was inflammation, inflammation that was causing heart disease, not cholesterol.”— Highlights the pivotal shift in understanding from cholesterol to inflammation.
“It's sugar, not fat, that's causing you to die of heart attacks. It's sugar, not fat, that's the problem.”— Emphasizes the primary dietary culprit.
“The biggest driver of inflammation in our society is our starch and sugary diet.”— Connects diet directly to inflammation.

Inadequacy of standard cholesterol tests and importance of advanced markers

2:30

Standard cholesterol panels (total cholesterol, LDL) are insufficient for assessing heart disease risk. Advanced tests like ApoB, Lp(a), HSCRP, fasting insulin, and lipoprotein fractionation are crucial for understanding particle number, size, and inflammation.

Why this matters: This challenges the common medical practice of relying solely on basic lipid panels, advocating for more comprehensive and predictive testing.

Background

Most doctors still perform basic cholesterol tests, which only measure the 'weight' of cholesterol, not the number or quality of particles. Dr. Hyman notes that less than 1% of Quest Diagnostics' tests include these advanced markers.

Dr. Hyman criticizes the standard cholesterol tests, stating that they only measure the 'weight' of cholesterol (e.g., LDL-C) but fail to provide crucial information about the number, size, and quality of cholesterol particles. He explains that small, dense LDL particles are far more atherogenic than large, fluffy ones, and the standard test doesn't differentiate. He advocates for tests like ApoB, which he has been using for over 30 years and which cardiology guidelines are finally recognizing as a causal factor. Lp(a) is another critical genetic marker affecting 20% of the population. Fasting insulin and HSCRP (high-sensitivity C-reactive protein) are also vital for assessing insulin resistance and inflammation, which are the true underlying drivers of heart disease. He co-founded Function Health to provide access to these comprehensive tests, as they are rarely ordered by conventional doctors.

Personal experience

I mean, I asked Quest, who is our lab testing partner in Function Health, how many cholesterol tests use the right cholesterol test, which looks at the quality and the size and the number of your cholesterol particles. Not just the weight of them, which is what you get with your normal cholesterol test, but the quality and the size, whether they're small or big, whether they're dense or not, and how many of those particles do you have. And you know what they said? Less than 1%.

So you gotta know your numbers, but you gotta know the right numbers. So doctors check your old cholesterol number. They see your LDL's high. They go, LDL, high. Let's get lower. Take a statin. Without really much thought.

Also said
“ApoB... is the most reliable marker of your risk of heart attacks. Why? Because it's a surrogate marker for poor metabolic health, meaning insulin resistance, prediabetes, blood sugar issues, belly fat.”— Explains the significance of ApoB as a comprehensive metabolic indicator.
“One in five people, which is twenty percent of the population, have an elevation in this particular number. It's a genetic problem.”— Highlights the prevalence and genetic nature of Lp(a) as a risk factor.
“How many tests that you get from doctors around the country include insulin? It's like less than one percent. Never checked. Almost never checked. It's probably the most important test for understanding your health and longevity.”— Underscores the critical but overlooked role of fasting insulin testing.

The 'Thin Outside, Fat Inside' (TOFI) phenomenon

21:30

Even individuals with a normal body mass index (BMI) can have significant internal fat, particularly belly fat, leading to insulin resistance and the same heart disease risk as obese individuals.

Why this matters: This concept challenges the assumption that normal weight equates to good metabolic health, revealing a hidden risk factor.

Dr. Hyman introduces the concept of TOFI, or 'Thin Outside, Fat Inside,' also known as 'skinny fat.' This refers to individuals who appear to be at a healthy weight based on their BMI but have a poor body composition, meaning they carry excessive body fat, especially visceral fat around their organs, and insufficient muscle mass. He states that 20% of normal-weight individuals exhibit insulin resistance, putting them at the same elevated risk for heart disease as those who are obese. This phenomenon highlights that metabolic health is not solely determined by external appearance or BMI, but by internal body composition and metabolic function.

But there is a problem that we call TOFI. Then on the outside, fat on the inside. Or I like to call it skinny fat. You look skinny on the outside, but you're fat on the inside.

Also said
“20% of people who are normal weight have insulin resistance and have the same heart disease risk as obesity.”— Quantifies the prevalence and risk associated with TOFI.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

4 items

Multivitamin Mineral

Supplement

A good quality multivitamin to cover nutritional gaps.

Next, want a good quality multivitamin mineral. Cover all the gaps, folate, zinc, magnesium.

Find Multivitamin

CoQ10

Supplement

Important for heart health, supporting mitochondria and vascular function.

Co q ten is also really important for heart health. Really supports mitochondria, vascular health. Really helps blood pressure and mitochondria.

Find CoQ10

Magnesium

Supplement

Helps relax blood vessels, aids insulin and blood sugar regulation, and supports heart rhythm.

Dr. Hyman highlights magnesium as a crucial supplement for cardiovascular health. He explains that it helps relax blood vessels, which can contribute to better blood pressure regulation. Furthermore, magnesium plays a role in insulin signaling and blood sugar metabolism, making it beneficial for addressing insulin resistance. It also supports proper heart rhythm. He suggests magnesium glycinate as a preferred form, but notes that magnesium citrate can be used if constipation is also an issue, indicating a practical consideration for choosing the right form.

vs alternatives

Suggests magnesium glycinate for general use and magnesium citrate for those with constipation.

Magnesium, really important. Helps relax the blood vessels, helps with insulin, blood sugar regulation. Heart rhythm also is helped by that.

Also said
“I like magnesium glycinate, or if you're constipated, you can use magnesium citrate.”— Offers specific forms of magnesium based on individual needs.
Find Magnesium

Fiber / Plant Sterols

Supplement

Plant compounds that can help lower LDL cholesterol and balance lipids.

vs alternatives

Can be obtained as a supplement or by eating more fibrous foods.

Fiber is great. Plant sterols also are other compounds that come from food like soy. It can be very helpful in lowering LDL cholesterol and just balancing your lipids.

Find Fiber
Disclosed sponsorships2speaker disclosed

Function Health

Service Sponsored · disclosed

A platform offering comprehensive lab testing, including advanced heart health markers, beyond what is typically provided by conventional doctors.

DisclosureDr. Mark Hyman co-founded Function Health.

Dr. Hyman repeatedly references Function Health as the solution for accessing the advanced lab tests he recommends, such as ApoB, Lp(a), HSCRP, fasting insulin, and lipoprotein fractionation. He states that he co-founded Function Health precisely because people need access to their own biological data, which they are not getting from their doctors. The service provides over 160 lab tests for various health markers, including heart, hormones, nutrients, and metabolism, for $365 a year. He emphasizes the value of tracking these numbers over time to understand trends and make informed lifestyle adjustments.

And that's why I co founded Function Health because people need to get access to their own biology and know their numbers and know their data, and they're not getting that from their doctors, sadly.

Also said
“And that's why at Functional Health, we do the right ones, including ones you never get from your doctor, like APOB, which is far more important than all the other cholesterol tests, and LP, most people don't check, which is a highly important genetic marker.”— Highlights specific advanced tests offered by Function Health.
“It gives you over a 160 lab tests for your heart, hormones, nutrients, toxins, metabolism, and lots more. And all in one check for your entire body, trusted by hundreds of thousands of members for $365 a year. That's a dollar a day.”— Details the scope and cost-effectiveness of the service.
Find Function

Omega-3 Fish Oil

Supplement Sponsored · disclosed

Recommended for lowering triglycerides, reducing inflammation, and improving blood pressure.

DisclosureDr. Mark Hyman is an investor in Big Bold Health, which produces Omega-3 Rejuvenate.

Dr. Hyman recommends a high-quality omega-3 fish oil, specifically mentioning Omega-3 Rejuvenate by Big Bold Health. He discloses his investment in the company, which was started by his mentor, Jeffrey Bland. The rationale for omega-3 supplementation is its ability to lower triglycerides, reduce systemic inflammation, and help regulate blood pressure. He stresses the importance of choosing a 'very pure' and 'extremely high quality' product, implying that not all fish oil supplements are equally effective or safe.

vs alternatives

Emphasizes 'high quality' and 'very pure' over generic fish oil, suggesting not all products are equal.

First, you want a good high quality omega three fish oil to lower your triglycerides and inflammation and your blood blood pressure. I recommend Omega-three Rejuvenate by Big Bold Health. I'm an investor in the company, transparently.

Also said
“It's started by my mentor, Jeffrey Bland, who's a father of functional medicine. Extremely high quality, very pure, really important to get the right one.”— Provides credibility for the specific brand and emphasizes quality.
Find Omega-3

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

7 items
If cholesterol were truly the main cause of heart disease, then why do half the people who have heart attacks have normal LDL levels?
This rhetorical question immediately challenges the foundational premise of conventional cardiology regarding cholesterol.
You go to your doctor, they check your labs, they do a cholesterol test, and they do the wrong one, by the way.
A direct and provocative statement criticizing standard medical practice regarding cholesterol testing.
When you graduate from medical school, you think you know everything. But you start practicing medicine, and after thirty or forty years, you really don't know that much.
A humble and insightful reflection on the limitations of initial medical training and the value of experience.
It's sugar, not fat, that's causing you to die of heart attacks. It's sugar, not fat, that's the problem.
A concise and contrarian summary of the core argument, directly challenging decades of dietary advice.
Ninety three point two percent of Americans have some degree of metabolic dysfunction.
A striking statistic that highlights the widespread nature of the underlying problem contributing to heart disease.
Food is defined as something that supports the health and development and growth of an organism. Ultra processed food does the exact opposite. So it technically isn't even food.
A strong, philosophical definition of food that reclassifies ultra-processed items as non-food.
Supplements are not one size fits all. They're not a replacement. They're called supplements for a reason, not placements.
A crucial caveat about the role and limitations of supplements, emphasizing personalized use.

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Topics covered

cholesterol and heart diseaseoutdated medical frameworkldl levelsapoblp(a)functional healthsaturated fatketogenic dietinflammationhscrpmetabolic dysfunctioninsulin resistanceprediabetesatherogenic dyslipidemialdl particle sizesugar vs fateat fat get thinthe blood sugar solutiondetoxcardiology guidelines
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