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Episode
What Temperature Should a Sauna Be? (Backed by Science)
~64 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

What Temperature Should a Sauna Be? (Backed by Science)

Ben Greenfield
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Infrared saunas, particularly full-spectrum ones, offer benefits beyond traditional dry saunas by combining heat stress with light penetration, impacting cellular function and mitochondrial ATP production.

2

Sunlighten saunas prioritize separating infrared wavelengths (far, mid, near, red light) to maximize their individual therapeutic effects, allowing for targeted programs like detoxification, pain relief, and anti-aging.

3

Optimal infrared sauna use focuses on energy absorption by the body, not air temperature; lower temperatures can be more effective for absorption, especially for those with compromised health, and consistency of use is more important than intensity.

4

It's recommended to use protective coverings in the sauna and avoid bringing electronic devices like phones due to potential EMF issues and to promote a parasympathetic state for enhanced detoxification and nervous system benefits.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

5 items

Optimizing Detoxification in Infrared Sauna

WhatEngage in parasympathetic activities like meditation and deep breathing during infrared sauna sessions to enhance detoxification and nervous system benefits.
WhenDuring infrared sauna sessions, especially when the goal is detoxification.
For whomAnyone seeking to optimize detoxification and nervous system recovery, particularly those with high-stress lifestyles (e.g., CEOs, athletes).
WhyThe parasympathetic 'rest and digest' state is more conducive to healing, detoxification, and the release of beneficial neurochemicals, while reducing stress hormones.
CaveatsWhile exercising in the sauna is a personal preference, it may not be optimal for detoxification compared to a relaxed state.

Connie Zach emphasizes that while some prefer to exercise in the sauna, a parasympathetic state is more effective for detoxification. She highlights that infrared saunas uniquely facilitate this shift from fight-or-flight to rest-and-digest, which is crucial for the body's healing processes. This state allows for better release of toxins, reduction of stress hormones like cortisol, and an increase in 'happy chemicals' like dopamine and serotonin. She mentions a study demonstrating infrared's positive impact on autonomic nervous system function and cardiac function, measured by heart rate variability, making it particularly beneficial for high-stress individuals.

Mechanism

Infrared sauna use can quickly shift the autonomic nervous system from a sympathetic (fight-or-flight) to a parasympathetic state. This shift promotes healing, detoxification, and the release of dopamine and serotonin, while lowering cortisol. A study on heart rate variability supports infrared's ability to improve autonomic nervous system function and cardiac function.

Personal experience

Connie Zach practices 'habit stacking' in her sauna, focusing on meditation and deep breathing to recharge and benefit her nervous system, especially given her busy life with kids and a business.

And at the parasympathetic state, your body is more open and acceptable to start healing and detoxifying and letting go of all of those stress hormones and, you know, that bring the cortisol down and and you're starting to release the dopamine and serotonin, like all the happy chemicals.

Also said
“There is a great study that um I'd love to share about the improvement of your autonomic ner nervous system and taking the body from the uh sympathetic state to the parasympathetic state by using infrared um as well as increasing the cardio cardiac function.”— Cites scientific backing for the nervous system benefits.
“I am a huge habit stacker inside my sauna where and my habits are all all on the autonomic nervous system parasympathetic state. So I like to go in, meditate, deep breathe because I I I'm I'm always running like I'm like I said, I'm always I'm always behind like I'm always going going going.”— Connie's personal practice and rationale.

Post-Exercise Sauna for Cardiovascular Benefits

WhatUse an infrared sauna after exercise to prolong the increased core temperature state, which can enhance cardiovascular fitness and erythropoietin production.
WhenImmediately after exercise.
For whomAthletes and individuals looking to enhance cardiovascular fitness and immune response.
WhyProlonged heat exposure post-exercise leads to an appreciable increase in erythropoietin (EPO) and improved immune system function.
CaveatsWhile effective, this practice can be uncomfortable, especially in traditional dry saunas.

Ben Greenfield notes that studies support the benefit of increasing core temperature post-exercise, leading to a significant rise in erythropoietin (EPO). EPO is known to increase red blood cell production, which improves oxygen transport and overall cardiovascular fitness, even in the absence of further physical exertion. Connie Zach agrees, stating she delays showering after her sauna sessions to extend this beneficial heat effect. While acknowledging the discomfort, particularly in dry saunas, Ben suggests that even moving around a little in the sauna post-workout can be a valuable tool for cardiovascular athletes.

Mechanism

Increasing and prolonging core body temperature post-exercise stimulates the production of erythropoietin, a hormone that increases red blood cell count, thereby improving oxygen delivery and cardiovascular fitness. This also supports immune system function.

Personal experience

Connie Zach typically saunas after exercising and delays showering to prolong the increased core temperature effect for immune system benefits. Ben Greenfield finds this practice effective for cardiovascular athletes.

Yeah studies back that up by the way like it it sucks really sucks in a dry sauna. Um but getting hot or getting exposed to something that increases core temp post exercise results in an appreciable increase in urethropoetin which is something your body makes also something you may remember from the Lance Armstrong Floyd Landis days as something they would illegally inject to get new red blood cells.

Also said
“I don't I don't jump in sometimes people will jump in the shower right away. I don't I wait a little bit because I just want that prolonged effect.”— Connie's personal practice to extend the heat effect.

Hydration and Mineralization for Sauna Benefits

WhatEnsure you are well-hydrated and mineralized before entering an infrared sauna.
WhenBefore sauna use.
For whomAll sauna users, especially those seeking to optimize the light-based benefits.
WhyThis helps maximize the water structuring effects of light and overall benefits of the sauna.

Ben Greenfield emphasizes that being well-hydrated and mineralized is crucial for maximizing the benefits of infrared sauna, particularly the water structuring effects that Connie Zach discussed. This optimal state allows the body to better absorb and utilize the light energy, leading to improved flow, oxygen and blood circulation, and ATP production. While not strictly necessary, it enhances the overall therapeutic cascade initiated by infrared exposure.

Mechanism

Adequate hydration and mineral levels facilitate the structuring of water molecules within the body by infrared light, which in turn improves blood flow, oxygen delivery, and ATP production.

Yeah. Yeah. And and it's especially uh most beneficial if you're going in in a well hydrated, wellmineralized state. So bookmark that folks if you you want the most out of the light.

Protecting Sauna Benches and Toweling Off

WhatUse absorbent, infrared-compatible covers on sauna benches and have a small face towel for sweat.
WhenDuring every sauna session.
For whomAll sauna users.
WhyPrevents reabsorption of detoxified substances from sweat and maintains hygiene.

Connie Zach strongly recommends using protective coverings, ideally made of an infrared-compatible, super-absorbent material, on sauna benches. This is to prevent direct contact with sweat that contains detoxified substances, such as heavy metals, and to maintain hygiene. She also suggests having a small face towel for wiping away sweat, particularly from the face and gut area, where sweating is often profuse. This practice ensures that the expelled toxins are not reabsorbed and that the sauna environment remains clean.

Mechanism

When the body detoxifies through sweat, heavy metals and other substances are expelled. Using protective coverings prevents these substances from being reabsorbed through the skin or contaminating the sauna surfaces.

Personal experience

Connie Zach always uses a protective cover on her bench and a small face towel for her own sauna sessions.

You should definitely put we have at sunlighten so many different materials and so many different covers and and highly recommend that you put um a a ideally it's like an infrared you know cellient fiber on the bench so that it super absorbent because you don't you definitely don't want I can't imagine you don't want to sit on the bench without protection.

Avoiding Electronics in Sauna

WhatDo not bring electronic devices, especially phones, into the sauna.
WhenDuring sauna sessions.
For whomAll sauna users.
WhyTo avoid potential issues with EMF exposure in a heated environment and to promote a relaxed, parasympathetic state for optimal detoxification and mental recharge.

Connie Zach and Ben Greenfield strongly advise against bringing phones or other electronic devices into the sauna. While Sunlighten has extensively engineered their saunas for extremely low or non-existent EMF, the concern is that the combination of heat and EMF from personal devices could be problematic. Beyond potential physical effects, the primary reason is to eliminate distractions and allow the user to fully engage in a parasympathetic state. This state is essential for deep relaxation, mental recharging, and optimizing the body's detoxification and healing mechanisms. Ben describes his personal practice of using this time for reflection and setting intentions, emphasizing the importance of an uninterrupted, focused experience.

Mechanism

While Sunlighten saunas are designed with low EMF, the combination of heat and radio frequencies from personal devices might exacerbate potential negative effects. More importantly, avoiding distractions allows the user to enter a parasympathetic state, which is crucial for the body's detoxification and healing processes, and for mental well-being.

Personal experience

Ben Greenfield advises against bringing phones into the sauna, noting that he uses the time for mental recharge and setting intentions. Connie Zach also encourages leaving anything distracting outside the sauna to focus on the 'energy medicine' of infrared.

But don't defeat the purpose and bring your phone in there. That's my advice. Yeah, I think it's real, you know, back to the the getting your self, you know, the shoulders down and just the brain recharged.

Also said
“So, I encourage leaving your phone out. Anything that's going to be distracting, that's going to bounce back and forth, you know, um to leave it out and just focus on the electrolytes, the minerals, the water.”— Connie's direct recommendation and rationale.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

4 items

Infrared Sauna Research Misconception

0:06:00

Ben Greenfield and Connie Zach challenge the common belief, sometimes voiced by experts like Rhonda Patrick, that there is scant research on infrared saunas compared to traditional dry saunas for conditions like dementia or heat shock protein production.

Why this matters: This directly refutes a widely held belief within the biohacking community, citing decades of existing research.

Background

Rhonda Patrick is noted for advocating for dry saunas due to perceived lack of infrared research for certain health outcomes.

Connie Zach, co-founder of Sunlighten, asserts that significant research on infrared therapy has existed for nearly 30 years, particularly concerning cardiovascular health. She explains that the lack of commercial interest from pharmaceutical companies or other large entities meant this research wasn't widely promoted or elevated to public awareness. Sunlighten itself has conducted studies, including one measuring core temperature increase and another with UMKC demonstrating statistically significant reductions in blood pressure using their products, directly countering the notion of insufficient scientific backing.

Yeah, there's And I like Rhonda, too. I mean, she's awesome. You can't not like Rhonda. Um, she's she's great and she's, you know, extremely knowledgeable when it especially knowledgeable when it comes to traditional, you know, high heat saunas. The reality is infrared, I mean, this is before I started the company, so this is a long time ago. There was plenty of data and statistically significant data especially at that time on the cardiovascular side.

Also said
“It's just there wasn't a pharmaceutical company and there wasn't there wasn't enough commercial activity to lift it up and elevate it and bring it you know to the forefront which is what I decided to do you know with my life and Aaron as well who you know you've met you know who is my business partner and and husband.”— Explains why existing research might not be widely known.
“And we found that in only 30 minutes you can increase your core by up to 3° which is amazing.”— Provides a specific, measurable outcome from their own product's testing.

Infrared vs. Traditional Sauna Mechanisms

0:09:00

Infrared saunas offer unique benefits beyond simple heat stress, primarily through light penetration that impacts cellular water structure, mitochondrial function, and nitric oxide absorption, which traditional hot air saunas cannot replicate.

Why this matters: This clarifies a fundamental difference often overlooked, emphasizing the 'light' aspect of infrared therapy.

Background

Traditional saunas are understood to provide heat stress benefits, but the role of light in infrared saunas is less commonly highlighted.

Connie Zach highlights that infrared is a spectrum of heat and light, and the light component (especially near-infrared and red light) provides benefits like photon neuroprotection, decreased inflammation, and mitochondrial impact, which are absent in traditional hot air saunas. Ben Greenfield adds that the light photons can structure water within the vasculature, leading to smoother blood flow and better nitric oxide absorption, further distinguishing infrared from mere heat. The ability to separate and maximize the output of different infrared wavelengths is crucial for these targeted effects.

You cannot get that with just hot air. you you do you do not get the benefit of the the photon you know um the photon neurop protection the the a lot of the benefits that you get from near infrared and red light therapy which is part of that infrared spectrum.

Also said
“When you're talking about cardiovascular health, I think people are aware that something like short-term heat stress could cause like a long-term hormetic effect that results in things like increases in blood volume and urethropoetin and um generally a little bit higher cardiovascular fitness even in the absence of working out. But what's come up on some of these podcasts is that beyond the heat, the actual photon packets of light structure the water within the vascule in such a manner that you actually get uh smoother flow.”— Ben Greenfield elaborates on the water structuring mechanism.
“And that is different than traditional heat.”— Directly contrasts infrared with traditional heat.

Optimal Infrared Sauna Temperature and Absorption

0:20:00

The effectiveness of an infrared sauna is not determined by how hot the air feels, but by the body's absorption of infrared energy; lower temperatures can be more effective for absorption, especially when starting a session.

Why this matters: This challenges the common perception that 'hotter is better' for saunas, providing a nuanced understanding of infrared efficacy.

Background

Many people associate sauna effectiveness with high air temperatures, similar to traditional saunas.

Connie Zach explains that traditional saunas heat the air, making the user feel hot, whereas infrared saunas bypass the air and directly heat the body by absorbing energy. She cites Dr. Michael Hamblin, a leading expert in photobiomodulation, who emphasizes that infrared is light energy absorbed by the body, not about air temperature. The longest and smoothest wavelengths, which are most easily absorbed, are present immediately upon turning the sauna on. While some prefer a hotter environment, starting at a lower temperature or getting in immediately allows for optimal absorption, particularly for those with compromised health, and can lead to longer, more comfortable sessions. Consistency of use is prioritized over intense heat.

Personal experience

Ben Greenfield admits he prefers a hotter sauna experience, influenced by his background in heat training for Iron Man triathlons, but acknowledges the scientific explanation for lower temperatures.

Infrared is completely different. And if I can help clarify one thing here today, really probably one of the most important things to understand the impact of this energy into our body and our cells is it is not about temperature and it is not about feeling excessively hot.

Also said
“In fact, the longer you wait, the shorter the wavelengths of energy are going to be because that's scientifically what happens when you look at infrared wavelengths. As soon as you turn it on, it's the longest and smoothest.”— Explains the scientific reason for getting in immediately.
“The fitter you are, um the faster you're going to sweat, the faster you're going to feel heat, the the faster everything because your body is so acclimated and is just it's it's it's very very fit. So those individuals that aren't as fit, it is more important like people like my brother who had heavy metal toxicity, people who have a lime, people who have mo, people who are trying to turn back the biological clock, like all those things they really need to they should um take it at a lower temperature to get the optimal absorption.”— Provides specific examples of who benefits from lower temperatures.

Microplastics Detoxification in Saunas

0:34:00

While heavy metal detoxification through sweat in saunas is well-established, more research is needed on the efficacy of infrared saunas for microplastic removal.

Why this matters: Addresses a contemporary health concern (microplastics) and highlights a gap in current sauna research.

Background

The 'blood, urine, sweat' study by Dr. Januis demonstrated significant removal of various toxicants, including heavy metals, through infrared sauna use.

Connie Zach references the 'blood, urine, sweat' study by Dr. Januis, which showed that many toxicants, even those undetectable in blood, could be found in sweat after infrared sauna use. This study was initially motivated by protecting women from environmental toxins before conception. However, she acknowledges that specific research on microplastic detoxification in saunas is still lacking. Ben Greenfield suggests that individuals could conduct N=1 experiments using home salivary microplastic tests before and after a rigorous sauna practice to gather anecdotal evidence.

I I think it's important, compelling information to provide. Um, I we lean right now heavily on the B US study. I don't know if you've seen that, but that's the blood urine sweat study that was done by Dr. Januis.

Also said
“Somebody somebody needs to do a comprehensive infrared sauna microplastic study.”— Ben Greenfield calls for more specific research.
“I don't know how it compares to blood, but there's a couple different places that do salivary like a home salivary microplastic test kit that I suppose folks could kind of use as an N equals one, right?”— Suggests a practical, if anecdotal, approach for individuals.
Disclosed sponsorships4speaker disclosed

Sunlighten Saunas (General)

Tool Sponsored · disclosed

Recommended for their full-spectrum, low-EMF infrared technology and ability to separate and maximize different infrared wavelengths for targeted health benefits.

DisclosureConnie Zach is the co-founder of Sunlighten. Ben Greenfield uses and promotes Sunlighten products.

Sunlighten is presented as a global leader in full-spectrum, low-EMF infrared saunas. Their key innovation lies in the ability to separate and precisely deliver different infrared wavelengths (far, mid, near, and red light), each with unique therapeutic properties. This allows for specialized programs targeting various health goals like detoxification, anti-aging, pain relief, and cardiovascular health. They emphasize that their saunas prioritize the quantity and quality of infrared energy absorbed by the body over high air temperature, and they have conducted independent testing to ensure extremely low EMF levels. They offer various models to suit different needs and spaces.

vs alternatives

Positioned as superior to traditional dry saunas due to the added light-based benefits and more effective energy absorption, and superior to other infrared saunas due to their patented carbon heaters and ability to separate wavelengths.

Personal experience

Ben Greenfield has been a long-time user of Sunlighten infrared saunas, using his 3-5 times a week for yoga and kettlebell workouts. Connie Zach uses her Impulse sauna regularly for recharging and nervous system benefits.

Her name is Connie Zach. She is the co-founder of Sunlighten. And Sunlighten is kind of considered to be one of the global leaders in full spectrum low EMF infrared saunas.

Also said
“The most powerful way to deliver infrared is to be able to separate all of the four wavelengths and then maximize the output into the body.”— Highlights a key differentiating feature.
“We have taken every single step so that our saunas, all of our saunas are either non-existent or virtually like nothing in EMF.”— Addresses a common concern about saunas.
Find Sunlighten

Sunlighten Impulse Sauna

Tool Sponsored · disclosed

The top-tier Sunlighten model, offering full-spectrum infrared (far, mid, near, red light) with customizable programs.

DisclosureConnie Zach is the co-founder of Sunlighten. Ben Greenfield uses and promotes Sunlighten products.

The Impulse model is Sunlighten's most advanced offering, providing the entire infrared spectrum (far, mid, near, and red light) with the highest frequency and quantity. Its unique feature is the ability to combine these wavelengths in six preset programs (Cardio, Detoxification, Relaxation, Pain Relief, Anti-Aging/Skin, Weight Loss) or a custom program. These programs are scientifically designed to deliver optimal results by pulsating the wavelengths at the right frequencies and quantities, ensuring efficiency and avoiding overexposure to certain light energies. For example, the anti-aging program excludes mid-infrared to avoid excessive heat stress on the skin while maximizing far, near, and red light for collagen and elastin boost.

vs alternatives

Offers the most comprehensive and customizable infrared experience compared to other Sunlighten models or generic infrared saunas, due to its full-spectrum capabilities and intelligent programming.

Personal experience

Both Ben Greenfield and Connie Zach own and use the Impulse sauna. Connie particularly loves its impact on her brain and body, calling it a 'reset button.'

I have the impulse which is behind me which has far infrared, mid infrared, near infrared and red light. And I find that the impact on my brain and body when it comes to ATP and energy is already so powerful.

Also said
“The way we developed the programs back in, you know, 2008 was making sure that the heat aspect never got too hot. And cardio is the hottest program out of the four of the four of them or six of them. Um, but that's not even, you know, I don't think it even gets above at its height. it it does not get above probably 145 maybe 150 degree Fahrenheit.”— Explains how programs manage heat for optimal light absorption.
“And in the custom, you can go in there and do it. You know, you have the option to set the heaters and set it how you know, however you want.”— Highlights the customization feature.
Find Sunlighten

Sunlighten Solo Sauna

Tool Sponsored · disclosed

A portable, single-person lie-down infrared sauna unit focusing on far infrared.

DisclosureConnie Zach is the co-founder of Sunlighten. Ben Greenfield uses and promotes Sunlighten products.

The Solo is Sunlighten's smallest and most portable option, designed for individual use in a lie-down position. It's a modular, telescopic unit weighing 67 lbs, making it easy to move and set up. It primarily utilizes far infrared technology, which was the focus of the core temperature study and the UMKC health benefit study that showed significant reductions in blood pressure. While it doesn't include near-infrared or red light, it's highlighted as an extremely effective and cost-efficient option for those seeking the core benefits of far infrared.

vs alternatives

Presented as a good entry-level or space-saving option, offering high-quality far infrared, but without the full spectrum of the Impulse or the shared cabin experience of the Signature or Amplify series.

Yes. So we'll start again with the Solo, which is the smallest. It's a oneperson lie down, telescopic in nature. So lower dome fits into the the upper dome, 67 lbs, goes anywhere, super easy, plugandplay.

Also said
“So, that's the one that the core temperature study was done on that show the increase in core temperature. It's also the one that UMKC, University of Missouri, Kansas City did a health benefit study with that product.”— Highlights specific research supporting its efficacy.
Find Sunlighten

Sunlighten Red Light Therapy Panel

Tool Sponsored · disclosed

A separate, app-controlled panel combining near-infrared and red light for targeted photobiomodulation.

DisclosureConnie Zach is the co-founder of Sunlighten. Ben Greenfield uses and promotes Sunlighten products.

This panel is a newer offering from Sunlighten, designed to provide concentrated near-infrared and red light therapy. It comes with an app that offers three levels (beginner, intermediate, advanced) for various programs like skincare, sleep, and muscle recovery. The app guides users on the optimal distance from the panel and the duration of the session, typically around 10 minutes. This allows users to get the benefits of photobiomodulation separately from a full sauna session, or to complement their existing sauna use.

vs alternatives

Offers a focused, app-guided red light therapy experience, distinct from the full-body sauna experience, and can be combined with other Sunlighten products like the Solo for a comprehensive approach.

Personal experience

Connie Zach uses the panel for skincare, specifically the advanced program, and appreciates its ease of use and short duration.

And so we developed programs at three different levels that um we have an app for that are connected to our red light therapy panel. So it is a panel of light that you can use in your home.

Also said
“And we have listed in there exactly the distance that you need to be from the panel.”— Highlights the user-friendly, guided aspect of the app.
“Our app and you go in and in each um program there's three different levels. So, for example, skin care, you know, I go and I do the um advanced, but if you want, you can start off with beginner and then there's intermediate and then there's advanced.”— Details the program customization and progression.
Find Sunlighten

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

7 items
If you blend it all, it's like anything that you blend, you don't know what's doing what.
This metaphor succinctly explains the rationale behind separating infrared wavelengths for targeted benefits.
I just didn't realize I was just doing it with a band-aid approach at the time.
Reflects Connie Zach's shift in perspective from pharmaceutical solutions to functional medicine and infrared therapy.
It's just there wasn't a pharmaceutical company and there wasn't there wasn't enough commercial activity to lift it up and elevate it and bring it you know to the forefront which is what I decided to do you know with my life and Aaron as well who you know you've met you know who is my business partner and and husband.
Explains why extensive infrared research might not be widely known, attributing it to a lack of commercial promotion rather than scientific absence.
You cannot get that with just hot air.
A concise statement highlighting a fundamental difference and advantage of infrared saunas over traditional dry saunas.
I mean, it is it is like literally a reset button that allows me to recharge, recover, restore, and I come out just I mean, so so p I'm just so charged.
A vivid personal description of the profound energetic benefits experienced from infrared sauna use.
It is not about temperature and it is not about feeling excessively hot.
This directly challenges a common misconception about sauna effectiveness, particularly for infrared.
Consistency beats intensity every day of the week.
A memorable and broadly applicable principle for health modalities, emphasizing regular, moderate use over infrequent, extreme sessions.

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Topics covered

infrared sauna benefitstraditional sauna vs infraredfull spectrum infraredlow emf saunassunlighten saunasconnie zachben greenfieldpharmaceutical industryheavy metal toxicityinfrared researchrhonda patrickcardiovascular healthcore temperature increasewater structuringnitric oxidemitochondrial atp productionmethylene blueinfrared wavelengthsfar infraredmid infrared
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