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Episode
Endometriosis and Fibroids Don't Stop at Menopause with Dr. Karen Tang
~97 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

Endometriosis and Fibroids Don't Stop at Menopause with Dr. Karen Tang

Mary Claire Haver
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Endometriosis affects at least 10% of women, takes 7–8 years on average to diagnose, and does not resolve after menopause; it requires ongoing suppression with progestins or surgery.

2

Adenomyosis, where endometrial-like tissue grows into the uterine wall, is common after C-sections and often flares in perimenopause, causing heavy, painful bleeding.

3

Fibroids affect 70–80% of women, can be managed with new radiofrequency ablation (Sonata/Acessa) or surgery, and hormone replacement therapy (HRT) is safe with monitoring.

4

Women with endometriosis or fibroids can safely use HRT if they pair estrogen with a stronger progestin (e.g., norethindrone, Provera, or levonorgestrel IUD) to prevent symptom flares.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

5 items

Stronger progestin for endo/adeno

WhatUse a synthetic progestin such as norethindrone (Aygestin) or medroxyprogesterone (Provera), or a levonorgestrel IUD (Mirena), instead of or in addition to micronized progesterone, to suppress endometriosis or adenomyosis bleeding and pain.
WhenWhen micronized progesterone alone fails to control heavy bleeding or pain, or proactively when starting HRT in a woman with known endometriosis/adenomyosis.
DoseNorethindrone can be taken as a pill (dose not specified, but she mentions taking more than one tablet for heavy bleeding); IUD provides continuous local progestin.
For whomWomen with diagnosed or suspected endometriosis or adenomyosis, especially those on HRT or with heavy/painful periods.
WhyMicronized progesterone is a weak progestin, insufficient to counteract the estrogen stimulation of endometriosis/adenomyosis. Stronger progestins suppress the disease activity.
CaveatsSome women may experience mood side effects from synthetic progestins; if intolerable, consider IUD or surgery.

Karen Tang explains that many well-meaning clinicians prescribe only micronized progesterone (Prometrium) for perimenopausal symptoms, but this is 'a drop in the bucket' for endometriosis or adenomyosis. She often 'stacks' progesterone: micronized for sleep and hot flashes, plus a synthetic progestin or IUD for bleeding control. She emphasizes that the goal is to counteract the estrogen stimulation that can flare these conditions. She uses the analogy of playing chess: anticipate that adding estrogen may require a stronger progestin move.

Mechanism

Progestins thin the endometrial lining and suppress the inflammatory activity of ectopic endometrial tissue, reducing pain and bleeding.

Personal experience

She says, 'I do have people on micronized progesterone or Prometrium for the sleep and the calming... and I have them on a stronger kind of synthetic one for the bleeding control.'

The bio identical ones quotequote. Yeah. So it may not be your best option if symptom control is for you.

Also said
“It's actually not usually enough for endometriosis, adnomiiosis suppression. It's sort of like a drop in the bucket.”— Directly states the inadequacy of micronized progesterone.
“I'll pop an IUD in for the bleeding control or I'll have them take an oral like a Justin for endometriosis suppression.”— Gives specific examples of stronger options.

HRT with endo: estrogen + strong progestin

WhatWhen prescribing hormone replacement therapy (estrogen) to a woman with a history of endometriosis, ensure she is on a sufficient progestin (synthetic or IUD) to prevent disease flare, not just micronized progesterone.
WhenAt the time of HRT initiation, or if symptoms flare after starting estrogen.
DoseEstrogen as needed for menopause symptoms; progestin: norethindrone, Provera, or levonorgestrel IUD. If using IUD, it also provides uterine protection.
For whomPerimenopausal or postmenopausal women with known endometriosis or adenomyosis who are starting HRT.
WhyEstrogen can stimulate residual endometriosis, causing pain and bleeding. Adequate progestin counteracts this stimulation.
CaveatsSome women may still need surgical intervention if medical suppression fails. Monitor for bleeding or pain and adjust progestin dose or type.

Karen Tang stresses that the common belief that women with endometriosis cannot take HRT is false. The key is to anticipate the need for stronger progestin. She advises having a 'game plan' and thinking several steps ahead, like chess. If a woman has had a hysterectomy and oophorectomy for endo, she must still receive progesterone with estrogen to prevent microscopic disease from flaring. She warns that giving estrogen alone is 'the worst thing you could do.' She reassures that with proper planning, women do very well on HRT.

Mechanism

Progestins suppress the proliferative effect of estrogen on endometrial-like tissue, reducing inflammation and lesion activity.

Personal experience

She says, 'I give it all the time for my patients.'

The good news is is that those of us who do know endo and permenopause know that you can take HRT. Of course you would. I give it all the time for my patients.

Also said
“You have to kind of go into it planning that you might need to go stronger on progesterines than you normally would.”— Core planning principle.
“I always tell people it's like playing chess. Like if you're like, if I move this, it could cause this move next, but then I'll do this. You think multiple chest steps ahead and it'll all be fine.”— Memorable analogy for proactive management.

Low threshold for pelvic ultrasound in perimenopause

WhatIf a perimenopausal woman experiences new or worsening heavy bleeding, pain, or bloating, obtain a pelvic ultrasound to evaluate for fibroids, polyps, or adenomyosis.
WhenAt the onset of concerning symptoms, especially after starting HRT or if periods become unpredictably heavy.
DoseOne-time imaging; repeat as needed if symptoms change.
For whomPerimenopausal women with heavy, irregular, or painful bleeding, or those starting HRT who develop these symptoms.
WhyMany women have undiagnosed fibroids, polyps, or adenomyosis that become symptomatic with hormonal fluctuations or HRT. Ultrasound can identify structural causes.
CaveatsUltrasound may not detect endometriosis; laparoscopy remains the gold standard for endo. Fibroids and adenomyosis are usually visible.

Karen Tang notes that she diagnoses new fibroids and adenomyosis frequently in perimenopause, often after HRT initiation 'wakes up' previously asymptomatic lesions. She has a very low threshold for ordering an ultrasound because these conditions are so common and treatable. She also points out that many women have had these conditions silently and only discover them when estrogen is introduced.

Mechanism

Imaging reveals structural abnormalities that may be causing bleeding or pain.

Personal experience

She says, 'I actually diagnose new fibroids a lot in perimenopause... I have a very low threshold to get an ultrasound because I've diagnosed so many fibroids and polyps and... adenomyosis that someone may have gone their whole life didn't know that they had.'

I have a very low threshold to get an ultrasound because I've diagnosed so many fibroids and polyps and I've actually started telling my patients this because it comes up so often.

Also said
“A lot of these people just quietly had their fibroids and polyps and just didn't realize it. And only kind I quote the, you know, we wake up the fibroids with the estrogen that we're giving them, which is again not a problem. Now we know and now we can address them.”— Explains why imaging is important after starting HRT.

Radiofrequency ablation for fibroids

WhatFor symptomatic fibroids, consider radiofrequency ablation (Sonata via hysteroscopy or Acessa via laparoscopy) to shrink fibroids and reduce bleeding/pain without removing the uterus.
WhenWhen fibroids cause heavy bleeding or bulk symptoms and the patient desires a less invasive alternative to myomectomy or hysterectomy.
DoseSingle procedure; may need repeat if new fibroids grow.
For whomWomen with symptomatic fibroids who want to avoid hysterectomy or myomectomy, especially those not planning future pregnancy (though myomectomy is preferred for fertility).
WhyIt effectively reduces symptoms with less recovery time and risk than traditional surgery, while preserving the uterus.
CaveatsNot available everywhere; fibroids can recur because the uterus remains. Not suitable for all fibroid locations (e.g., pedunculated outside the uterus may not be accessible).

Karen Tang describes this as one of the few recent breakthroughs in gynecologic surgery. She has followed the technology for 15 years. The procedure is done either through the vagina (Sonata) or abdomen (Acessa). It doesn't remove the fibroid but shrinks it, making it softer and less symptomatic. It's a middle ground between medication and major surgery. She emphasizes that because the uterus is left in place, fibroids can return, so it may not be definitive.

Mechanism

Needle electrodes deliver radiofrequency energy to heat and coagulate the fibroid tissue, causing necrosis and shrinkage over time.

It's a great way to treat the fibroids without being as invasive as like cutting the whole thing out or taking the whole uterus out.

Also said
“So it decreases bleeding. It shrinks the fibroid. It doesn't make it completely disappear, but it makes it smaller, softer, less painful, less bloody.”— Details the expected outcome.

Monitor for earlier menopause after hysterectomy

WhatWomen who undergo hysterectomy (even with ovarian preservation) should be counseled that they may experience menopause 4 years earlier on average, and should have their symptoms and labs monitored because menstrual cessation can no longer be used as a marker.
WhenBefore and after hysterectomy, during follow-up.
DoseOngoing monitoring; consider FSH levels if symptoms arise.
For whomAll women undergoing hysterectomy with ovarian preservation.
WhyHysterectomy disrupts the utero-ovarian circulation, potentially accelerating ovarian decline. Without periods, the onset of menopause can be missed.
CaveatsThe earlier menopause may be due to underlying pathology (e.g., inflammation from fibroids/endo) rather than the surgery itself, but the phenomenon exists.

Karen Tang explains that even when ovaries are left, hysterectomy is associated with an earlier age of menopause—about 4 years earlier. She notes that this was not taught in her training, and many clinicians still don't counsel patients. She also mentions that some women experience temporary hot flashes or mood swings right after surgery due to disrupted ovarian function. She emphasizes the importance of awareness so that women can seek HRT or other management when symptoms arise, rather than being dismissed.

Mechanism

The surgery may compromise blood flow to the ovaries, or the inflammatory condition that necessitated hysterectomy may also damage ovarian reserve.

Even if you leave the ovaries, the hysterctomies are associated with a little bit of an earlier age of full-blown menopause.

Also said
“And then people can even temporarily feel more menopausal symptoms like hot flashes or mood fluctuations cuz you're breaking a connection between the ovaries and the uterus which can you know temporarily affect ovarian function.”— Explains the immediate post-op symptoms.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

5 items

endometriosis-persistence-after-menopause

Contrary to outdated teaching, endometriosis does not resolve after menopause or hysterectomy; it can persist and cause pain even with low estrogen.

Why this matters: Many clinicians still tell patients that menopause or hysterectomy cures endometriosis, leading to misdiagnosis and untreated pain.

Background

Historically, medical training taught that endometriosis regresses after menopause due to estrogen decline, and that hysterectomy (even without ovary removal) eliminates the disease.

Karen Tang explains that while lower estrogen levels (as in menopause or with hormonal suppression) often reduce symptoms, the disease does not vanish. She sees postmenopausal patients with severe endometriosis, including large cysts. She also notes that transgender men on testosterone, who have no periods, can still have endometriosis pain. The myth that pregnancy cures it is also pervasive; pregnancy temporarily suppresses symptoms via high progesterone and no ovulation, but it is not a long-term solution. She emphasizes that even after hysterectomy, microscopic disease can remain and flare if estrogen is given without adequate progesterone.

Personal experience

Karen Tang shares that in her surgical practice, postmenopausal women with endo 'have really bad endo... like big cysts... it just never fully got suppressed or went away.' She also receives comments from women who were told pregnancy would cure their endo.

Endometriosis is stimulated by the estrogen from your ovary. So it is true that in situations where the estrogen levels are lower... people do feel better. It doesn't make it go away entirely.

Also said
“I even, you know, I take care of transgender men as well. And so even if they're having no periods, they're on testosterone, they can still have pain.”— Shows that absence of menstruation does not equal absence of disease.
“Another myth that's still going around is that pregnancy cures it. I will get like hundreds of comments from women who are still told that.”— Highlights the persistence of this myth despite evidence.

adenomyosis-underdiagnosed-linked-to-csection

Adenomyosis, endometrial-like tissue in the uterine muscle, is extremely common, often flares after C-sections or D&Cs, and is a major cause of heavy bleeding and pain in perimenopause.

Why this matters: Most women have never heard of adenomyosis, yet it may explain worsening periods after childbirth or uterine procedures.

Background

Adenomyosis has been poorly recognized; many clinicians attribute heavy bleeding to fibroids or 'normal' perimenopause.

Karen Tang describes adenomyosis as a 'cousin' to endometriosis, occurring when endometrial tissue invades the muscular wall of the uterus. It causes severe bleeding, pain, and bulk symptoms. She notes a classic story: a woman who had manageable periods until after a C-section or D&C, then experiences a dramatic worsening. The disruption of the border between the endometrium and myometrium is thought to allow tissue to grow into the muscle. Adenomyosis is easier to see on ultrasound or MRI than endometriosis, appearing as a blotchy, heterogeneous myometrium with indistinct borders. It often coexists with fibroids and can be triggered by HRT if estrogen is unopposed.

Personal experience

Karen Tang says, 'I actually diagnose new fibroids a lot in perimenopause... I have a very low threshold to get an ultrasound because I've diagnosed so many fibroids and polyps and... adenomyosis that someone may have gone their whole life didn't know that they had.' She also shares a case of a patient with a hemoglobin of 2 from a small cavity fibroid, illustrating how location matters.

Adnomiiosis is probably the most common thing that no one's ever heard of.

Also said
“C-sections and other procedures like DNC's like for miscarriage increase the risk of adnomiiosis.”— Directly states the iatrogenic link.
“The classic story... most of the time people are like okay like they were living life doing all right periods were not that bad they typically then they have kids especially C-sections and then afterwards they're like what happened like all the floodgates open the periods are just insane.”— Illustrates the typical patient narrative.

radiofrequency-ablation-fibroids

Radiofrequency ablation (Sonata via hysteroscopy, Acessa via laparoscopy) uses heat to destroy fibroids, reducing bleeding and size without removing the uterus.

Why this matters: This is one of the few recent breakthroughs in gynecologic surgery, offering a uterine-sparing option between medication and hysterectomy.

Background

Traditional fibroid treatments ranged from hormonal suppression to myomectomy (surgical removal) or hysterectomy. Myomectomy is invasive and has a long recovery; hysterectomy is definitive but ends fertility and may accelerate menopause.

Karen Tang explains that radiofrequency ablation involves inserting needles into the fibroid under ultrasound or laparoscopic guidance and passing electricity to heat and destroy the tissue. It shrinks the fibroid, making it softer and less symptomatic, though it doesn't remove it entirely. She has followed this technology for 15 years and notes it is now more widely available, though still limited to certain centers. It is ideal for women who want to avoid major surgery or preserve the uterus, but fibroids can recur because the uterus is left in place.

There's very few breakthroughs in women's health which is very sad but this is one of them which is what called radio frequency ablation of fibroids.

Also said
“So it decreases bleeding. It shrinks the fibroid. It doesn't make it completely disappear, but it makes it smaller, softer, less painful, less bloody.”— Describes the outcome.
“It's a great way to treat the fibroids without being as invasive as like cutting the whole thing out or taking the whole uterus out.”— Highlights the advantage over traditional surgery.

oophorectomy-avoided-endometriosis-hrt

Modern endometriosis surgery avoids removing ovaries unless absolutely necessary due to the risks of surgical menopause; if oophorectomy is done, HRT with adequate progesterone is critical.

Why this matters: This represents a major shift from past practice where ovaries were routinely removed to 'treat' endometriosis, often without discussing long-term health consequences.

Background

Historically, surgeons performed oophorectomy (ovary removal) to induce surgical menopause and starve endometriosis of estrogen. This plunged young women into menopause, increasing risks of cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, and cognitive issues.

Karen Tang explains that during her fellowship in 2009-10, aggressive ovary removal was common. Now, because of the known dangers of surgical menopause—cardiovascular disease, bone thinning, diabetes, quality of life—they try to preserve ovaries. Exceptions include strong family history of ovarian cancer or recurrent, aggressive endometriosis despite optimal excision. If ovaries must be removed, she emphasizes the need for HRT with a progestin component to prevent microscopic endo from flaring. She warns that giving estrogen alone after hysterectomy and oophorectomy is 'the worst thing you could do' because it can reactivate disease.

Personal experience

She says, 'We really try and avoid taking out the ovaries unless there's some other pressing issue.'

We really try and avoid taking out the ovaries unless there's some other pressing issue... we always now at least you know most people I know will have that conversation. We'll be like, we may do this, but we're going to want to talk about HRT if you're young to avoid the quality of life issues and the bone thinning, etc.

Also said
“That's like the worst thing you could do because now you've done all this because microscopic disease left behind that you couldn't see... you give just estrogen, no progesterone. You like you're just going to flare it again and you've done all this work for nothing.”— Emphasizes the critical need for progesterone with estrogen after oophorectomy for endo.

womens-health-research-underfunding

NIH funding for endometriosis ($27M) is less than for smallpox ($37M), and fibroids ($15M) even less, despite affecting 70–80% of women, highlighting systemic neglect.

Why this matters: Quantifies the gender disparity in medical research funding, explaining why so little is known about these common conditions.

Background

The McKenzie report and NIH public data reveal that only 10–15% of the NIH budget goes to women's health, and within that, the vast majority is for cancer and pregnancy. Conditions like endometriosis, fibroids, and menopause receive less than 1%.

Karen Tang cites specific figures: in 2022, smallpox received $37 million, endometriosis $27 million, and fibroids $15 million. She points out that smallpox is considered a national defense priority, while women's quality of life is given almost no consideration. This lack of funding means we don't know the basic biology—what causes these diseases, how to prevent them, or how to develop targeted therapies. She ties this to the long diagnostic delays and the perpetuation of myths.

In 2022 they allocated $37 million for smallpox. The amount for endometriosis was 27 million. So $10 million less. Fibroids affect 70% of white women, 80% of black women and that only had $15 million. So less than half of the budget for a disease that no one has even though it affects 70 80% of women.

Also said
“Quality of life for women like literally is given almost no consideration. They're like well that's not as important as you know fertility, biological warfare, etc.”— Captures the dismissive attitude.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

2 items

Levonorgestrel IUD (Mirena, Skyla)

Tool

Karen Tang recommends the progestin IUD as an effective local treatment for heavy bleeding, endometriosis pain, and uterine protection during HRT.

She notes that the IUD delivers progestin directly to the uterus, providing strong suppression of the endometrial lining and ectopic endometrial tissue with fewer systemic side effects than oral progestins. It can be used in perimenopause for bleeding control and as the progestin component of HRT. However, if fibroids distort the cavity, the IUD may be expelled or difficult to place.

vs alternatives

Compared to oral progestins, the IUD offers localized effect and no daily pill; compared to hysterectomy, it preserves the uterus.

Personal experience

She says, 'I'll pop an IUD in for the bleeding control.'

Progesterone IUDs are very good. Put them in the uterus if somebody doesn't want to take as much stuff, you know, by mouth. Yeah. It helps to control bleeding and inflammation and pain a little bit more locally to the pelvis.

Also said
“It's kind of a nice option to kind of kill two birds with one stone, too.”— Highlights dual benefit for bleeding and HRT.
Find Levonorgestrel

Sonata and Acessa radiofrequency ablation systems

Tool

These are minimally invasive devices that use radiofrequency energy to ablate fibroids, offering a uterine-sparing alternative to surgery.

Sonata is performed through the vagina via hysteroscopy, Acessa via laparoscopy. They are not yet universally available but represent a significant advance. Tang has followed this technology for 15 years and now offers it to appropriate patients.

vs alternatives

Less invasive than myomectomy or hysterectomy, with quicker recovery, but fibroids can recur.

There's very few breakthroughs in women's health which is very sad but this is one of them which is what called radio frequency ablation of fibroids.

Also said
“So it decreases bleeding. It shrinks the fibroid. It doesn't make it completely disappear, but it makes it smaller, softer, less painful, less bloody.”— Describes the clinical effect.
Find Sonata
Disclosed sponsorships1speaker disclosed

It's Not Hysteria: Everything You Need to Know About Your Reproductive Health (But Were Never Told)

Book Sponsored · disclosed

Karen Tang wrote this book to empower women with knowledge about conditions like endometriosis, fibroids, PCOS, and more, and to validate their experiences of being dismissed.

DisclosureAuthor

The book's title reflects the historical tendency to label women's health complaints as hysteria. Tang explains that she wanted a title that captured both the facts and the experience of not being listened to. The book covers a wide range of reproductive health topics, providing information that women are often not told, so they can advocate for themselves.

vs alternatives

Unlike many women's health books that focus narrowly on fertility or menopause, this book covers the full spectrum of gynecologic conditions from periods to pelvic pain.

Personal experience

She says, 'I wanted something that made people feel seen and heard.'

It's not hysteria. Everything you need to know about your reproductive health but we're never told.

Also said
“So giving you those facts so that you can then advocate for yourself, seek the treatments that you need, uh find the right solutions for your health.”— States the book's purpose.
Find It's

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

6 items
It's on average 7 years and it's actually eight years in the UK... imagine something affected at least 10% of men... it would never stand. Nobody would would be okay with that. They'd be like, 'This is like an international like crisis.'
Powerful illustration of gender disparity in diagnosis.
Common does not equal normal.
Succinct mantra challenging normalization of women's suffering.
We don't know anything 100%. That's the sad thing about women's health is that we just don't have enough research.
Honest admission of knowledge gaps due to underfunding.
Fibroids affect 70% of white women, 80% of black women and that only had $15 million. So less than half of the budget for a disease that no one has even though it affects 70 80% of women.
Stark funding comparison.
I always tell people it's like playing chess. Like if you're like, if I move this, it could cause this move next, but then I'll do this. You think multiple chest steps ahead and it'll all be fine.
Memorable analogy for proactive HRT management in endo.
Adnomiiosis is probably the most common thing that no one's ever heard of.
Highlights a major blind spot in women's health.

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Topics covered

endometriosisadenomyosisfibroidsperimenopausemenopausehormone-replacement-therapyprogestinssurgeryhysterectomyoophorectomyradiofrequency-ablationdiagnosis-delayresearch-fundingwomens-healthpelvic-painheavy-bleedinginfertilityits-not-hysteria
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