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Episode
IVF Isn't Fixing Fertility – Here's What Actually Works
~75 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

IVF Isn't Fixing Fertility – Here's What Actually Works

Mark Hyman
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Infertility is often a 'check engine light' for underlying health issues in both men and women, not solely a reproductive problem, and can be addressed through functional medicine approaches.

2

Preconception health optimization, including diet, detoxification, and stress management, for 3-36 months before conception, significantly improves fertility and the health of the baby, potentially impacting future generations.

3

Key interventions include adopting a nutrient-dense diet (e.g., Paleo/Mediterranean), reducing exposure to environmental toxins (plastics, pesticides), supporting detoxification pathways, and enhancing mitochondrial function with supplements like CoQ10, B vitamins, NAD, and phosphatidylcholine.

4

Stress reduction techniques like meditation are crucial, as chronic stress can negatively impact hormone balance and fertility, with studies showing mindfulness-based stress reduction can be as effective as IVF.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

5 items

Preconception Preparation Period

WhatDedicate a specific period before attempting conception to optimize health for both partners.
When3 to 36 months before trying to conceive.
DoseMinimum 3 months, ideally longer (up to 3 years).
For whomAny individual or couple planning to have a baby, even if not currently experiencing infertility.
WhyTo prepare the body, improve egg and sperm health, and positively influence epigenetics for the baby and future generations.

The speakers emphasize that conception is not a passive process and requires significant thought, planning, and preparation. The preconception period is crucial because the health status of both parents, including their metabolic state, toxin levels, and microbiome, directly impacts the epigenetics of the child. This means that while genes cannot be changed, their expression (dialing up or down) can be dramatically influenced. This preparation period is not just about fertility but also about ensuring the long-term health of the child, potentially preventing neurodevelopmental delays, autoimmunity, and other chronic issues. It's also highlighted that this preparation can make IVF more successful if it becomes necessary, or even negate the need for it.

It's not just like a day before or a week before. It's you're talking anywhere from 3 months to 36 months, 3 years. You have to start thinking about what it takes to prepare yourself to have a healthy baby.

Also said
“It takes about 74 to 86 days to make a sperm. So, get things really dialed in around three months before you're starting to try to conceive with as many of these factors that are going to influence the health of your baby.”— Specific biological reason for the 3-month minimum for men.
“Don't rush into getting pregnant, take the 3, 6, 12 months to really prepare your body. It can really make a difference between what you have to go through with your kids because it's it's so hard to to have a child with the neurodedevelopmental delays or the autoimmunity.”— Highlights the long-term benefits for child health.

Dietary Optimization for Fertility

WhatAdopt a nutrient-dense diet, eliminating processed foods, sugar, and inflammatory ingredients.
WhyTo reduce inflammation, improve nutrient status, and address insulin resistance, which are major drivers of infertility and poor health.

The first step in preconception preparation is to 'get the diet dialed in.' This involves removing highly processed foods, which are often high in sugar and starch, and replacing them with nutrient-dense whole foods. Dr. Shippy suggests a Paleo or Mediterranean diet as good starting points, as they naturally eliminate common inflammatory foods like gluten and dairy. The speakers emphasize that sugar and starch are significant drivers of infertility, often linked to insulin resistance. This dietary shift is foundational for healing and has been observed to reverse health issues in many patients, making it a crucial component for both male and female fertility.

So the the first thing is to get the diet dialed in. So you and I find we've had so many of our patients heal by just changing their diet, right? So, um, I would start there by taking out the highly processed foods and add in the most nutrient-dense foods that we can.

Also said
“But the truth is that sugar and starch is huge driver of infertility. Well, I mean Walter Willard wrote a book called The Fertility Diet and was all about the phenomena of insulin resistance driving infertility.”— Connects specific dietary components to infertility mechanisms.
“In just three weeks, they could see a change in sperm quality and hormone levels. Then they flipped the groups and they and they saw the same thing.”— Evidence from a study showing rapid impact of diet on male fertility.

Environmental Toxin Reduction and Detoxification

WhatMinimize exposure to environmental toxins and support the body's natural detoxification pathways.
WhenAt least 3 months before conception, and continuously.
DoseOngoing minimization, 3 months of active detoxification support.
WhyToxins act as endocrine disruptors, negatively impacting fertility in both men and women, and can have intergenerational epigenetic effects.

Environmental toxins, including plastics (BPA, phthalates), pesticides (atrazine), and heavy metals, are significant endocrine disruptors that impair fertility. These toxins are found not only in food but also in packaging, household items, and personal care products. The speakers highlight that while it's easier to study the effects in men due to faster sperm turnover, these toxins affect both sexes. The protocol involves actively minimizing exposure by using resources like the Environmental Working Group, choosing whole foods, and avoiding non-stick cookware. Additionally, supporting the body's detoxification pathways through specific foods, supplements (like liposomal glutathione and liver support), and binders is crucial. This helps reduce the 'total body burden' of toxins, which is essential for healthy egg and sperm development and preventing adverse epigenetic programming in offspring.

Personal experience

Dr. Hyman mentions using detoxification protocols personally for mercury poisoning, and Dr. Shippy for toxic mold exposure, indicating their belief in its efficacy.

So, if for the people that can test, great. And if they can't getting the starting to minimize the exposures by you know using things like environmental working group and looking for where where the chemicals are eating the healthy foods that actually support the detox pathways but then I think most people really benefit from uh doing some liposal glutathione and some liver support and some binders for at least 3 months and I describe a lot of that in the book.

Also said
“The containers that these highly processed foods are. Like the takeout I think is really not good for men's sperm health, right? um the PAS and the plastics that get leeched into the food from the takeout containers and the frozen containers that the highly processed food in is then as part of the um the story here on what's going to actually move the needle to have people have men have healthier sperm.”— Specific examples of toxin sources in daily life.
“We know that the PAS can dramatically like just exposure to the sperm and the egg can dramatically affect the possibility that the child's going to have to deal with obesity.”— Highlights a specific intergenerational epigenetic effect of toxins.

Mitochondrial Support for Fertility

WhatSupplement with nutrients that enhance mitochondrial function.
WhyMitochondria are crucial for energy production in cells, including eggs and sperm, and their optimal function is directly linked to fertility and overall health.

The speakers emphasize that 'pretty much everything that supports mitochondria supports fertility.' This is because healthy mitochondrial function is essential for the energy demands of both egg and sperm cells. They note that this area of research is rapidly evolving, with new studies constantly emerging. Beyond fertility, mitochondrial support contributes to overall health and longevity, as energy is fundamental to all bodily processes. The approach involves a combination of supplements that are widely available and relatively inexpensive, making it an accessible strategy for many.

Mechanism

Mitochondria are the 'energy makers' of the cells and also help squelch certain types of inflammation. Supporting them ensures cells have the necessary energy for proper function, which is vital for the complex processes of egg maturation, sperm motility, and early embryonic development. Phosphatidylcholine, for instance, provides the building blocks for cell and mitochondrial membranes, improving their structural integrity and function.

Pretty much everything that supports mitochondria supports fertility. So, CoQ10, B vitamins, NAD, you and I both have had such a dramatic assistance from this supplement uh phospatylcoline in our bodies.

Also said
“I was show I'm doing a an online course for you know kind of the people between me the people that want more of me than what they can get just from reading the book and uh and yet they can't come see me as a patient. Um so I've just started this and um you know showing them the picture of the sperm that have all the little mitochondria lined up after the head so they can you know be inspired to support their mitochondria.”— Illustrates the importance of mitochondria for sperm function.
“And then the ovaries like the ovaries just need so such good mitochondrial support. And then I just see this like I I had a patient uh today who's 55 and she's doing all the mitochondria support you know she's taking the mito the CoQ10 the NAD and she's 55 and she's still having regular periods like every 28 days”— Anecdotal evidence of mitochondrial support extending reproductive health.

Stress Reduction and Mindfulness

WhatIncorporate daily stress reduction practices, such as meditation.
DoseAt least 5 minutes daily, ideally 20 minutes once or twice a day.
WhyChronic stress leads to 'cortisol steal,' diverting hormone precursors away from reproductive hormones, negatively impacting fertility. Stress also creates a detrimental physiological state.

The emotional burden of infertility can exacerbate the problem, creating a vicious cycle. Studies have shown that mindfulness-based stress reduction can be as effective as IVF in achieving pregnancy. The key is consistency, even short periods of meditation (5 minutes) can begin to change biology. The speakers acknowledge that many people struggle with meditation, feeling they aren't 'good at it,' but emphasize that the intention itself and gently returning focus are what matter. They also mention advanced tools like neurofeedback for those whose brains are 'stuck' in a hypervigilant state due to past traumas or health crises.

Mechanism

When stressed, the body produces more cortisol. This process, known as 'cortisol steal,' utilizes precursors that would otherwise be used to make estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone, thereby disrupting hormonal balance essential for fertility. Meditation helps shift brain waves from high beta (stress) to alpha and theta states, signaling to the body that it is safe and can relax, which supports overall physiological balance and reproductive function.

Personal experience

Dr. Hyman recalls his mother getting pregnant at 32 after giving up on conception and signing adoption papers, illustrating the impact of stress reduction. He also mentions his own long-term practice of meditation and neurofeedback.

I think this is important for everybody listening, not just for people that want to start to go with their family. Like it's such an important driver for health. So, and it it's something that I really do address in the book, but um you know, we have something called the cortisol steel where when we're stressed, we make more cortisol, and it basically slurps up the estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and uses the precursors for making our hormones into cortisol.

Also said
“And their results in terms of pregnancy were the same as IVF like or better than IVF so basically I thought that was Fascinating.”— Highlights the efficacy of stress reduction compared to IVF.
“Just the intention of meditating will start to change your biology. Just letting your body know that it can be for a moment without doing will start to change the brain waves that you make.”— Emphasizes the power of intention and the physiological changes from meditation.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

4 items

IVF as a 'Check Engine Light' for Infertility

0:25 / 20:50

IVF is often presented as a primary solution for infertility, but Dr. Shippy views infertility itself as a 'check engine light' indicating deeper biological disturbances that need to be addressed.

Why this matters: This reframes infertility from a standalone reproductive issue to a symptom of broader systemic health problems, challenging the conventional medical approach.

Background

Traditional medicine often focuses on IVF as the main intervention for infertility, with increasing numbers of books by reproductive endocrinologists normalizing it as the expected path.

Dr. Shippy and Dr. Hyman argue that treating infertility solely with IVF is akin to driving a car with a check engine light on at high speed across the country without investigating the underlying problem. They believe that infertility signals biological disturbances in hormonal regulation, ovarian function, and sperm health and production. These disturbances are often modifiable through lifestyle and environmental changes, which are typically overlooked in conventional medicine. The 'check engine light' metaphor emphasizes that infertility is a clue to systemic issues, not just a reproductive failure, and that addressing these root causes can lead to natural conception or significantly improve IVF success and baby health.

So, the way that I'm thinking about IVF these days is the check engine lights on. The body's saying, 'Hey, there's something going on.' And then women are encouraged to do IVF. And it's that's like taking a car that has the check engine light on and trying to drive it at 200 miles an hour ac across the country.

Biological Age vs. Chronological Age for Fertility

14:50 / 15:20

Fertility is more closely tied to biological age and overall health than chronological age, suggesting that women in their mid-to-late 40s can still conceive naturally if their bodies are optimized.

Why this matters: This challenges the common medical narrative of 'geriatric pregnancy' at 35+ and offers hope for older women seeking to conceive.

Dr. Shippy highlights that while women are delaying childbirth, leading to increased struggles with conception, the critical factor isn't chronological age but biological age. She has successfully helped women in their mid-to-late 40s conceive naturally, even after previous infertility or IVF failures. This is attributed to optimizing their bodies through specific steps, such as addressing microbiome imbalances, clearing environmental toxins, and reducing inflammation. The concept suggests that the ovaries act as 'sensors,' continuously monitoring the body's overall health to determine if it's an optimal time for pregnancy, and improving this underlying health can 'reset' the biological clock to some extent.

Personal experience

Dr. Shippy shares an anecdote of her oldest patient, who got pregnant naturally on the first try at 47 after a three-month preparation period addressing microbiome issues, environmental toxins, and inflammatory markers. Another patient, 44, who had lost a kidney and developed autoimmune hepatitis from a previous IVF, became pregnant naturally after a year of working with Dr. Shippy.

But, but you also talk about this idea that it's not your chronological age, but it's your biological age that matters. Talk more about that.

Sperm QT Test as a Biomarker for Male Health

42:00 / 43:40

The Sperm QT test, which measures epigenetic markers in sperm, is presented as a more advanced and comprehensive biomarker for male health than traditional sperm tests, indicating deeper issues like toxin exposure or microbiome disruption.

Why this matters: This introduces a novel diagnostic tool that goes beyond traditional sperm analysis, offering insights into overall male health and potential intergenerational epigenetic effects.

Traditional sperm tests often miss underlying issues because they primarily assess sperm count and motility. The Sperm QT test, however, delves into the epigenetics of sperm, looking at methylation and histone markers. This allows for the detection of deeper problems that could be linked to environmental toxins, microbiome imbalances, low-grade infections, or brewing autoimmunity. Dr. Shippy emphasizes that a poor Sperm QT result can serve as an 'easy way to see what's going on' in a man's overall health, acting as a vital sign. This test is particularly relevant given the understanding that male health, including toxin levels, can significantly impact the epigenetics passed on to offspring, affecting not just the baby but potentially future generations.

Personal experience

Dr. Hyman reveals he personally took the Sperm QT test at 66 and received 'excellent' results, which he attributes to his rigorous health optimization efforts, suggesting it's a valuable health biomarker even for men not planning to conceive.

Have you heard about the sperm QT test yet? Yes. So he did sperm QT. It's terrible. And so now they're both patients and we're going to get them both tuned up because the sperm QT looks at the epigenetics of the sperm and can detect deeper problems than what a traditional

Also said
“I did and I got excellent. So, I was happy to see that at 66 years old.”— Dr. Hyman's personal experience with the test and positive outcome.
“It's like a vital sign. It may be an easier way to even know is there a toxin we need to go look for. Is there a disruption a disruption in your microbiome? Do you have a low-grade infection someplace? Do you have some autoimmunity brewing?”— Explains the broader diagnostic utility of the Sperm QT test beyond just fertility.

Reversibility of Autoimmune Markers

36:00 / 38:00

Autoimmune markers, traditionally considered irreversible in medicine, can be reversed through functional medicine interventions that address the root causes of immune system confusion.

Why this matters: This directly contradicts conventional medical training that autoimmune conditions are permanent, offering a paradigm shift for patients with autoimmune diagnoses.

Dr. Shippy and Dr. Hyman both highlight that conventional medical training dictates that once autoimmune markers appear, they are permanent. However, their functional medicine experience demonstrates that this is not true. They explain that autoimmune processes often stem from the immune system being 'confused' due to factors like low-grade infections, environmental toxins, or gut dysfunction, leading it to attack the body's own tissues. By identifying and addressing these underlying triggers, the immune system can be rebalanced, and autoimmune markers can normalize. This approach moves beyond merely suppressing the immune system with drugs to resolving the root cause of the dysfunction, offering a path to true healing and improved overall health, including fertility.

Personal experience

Dr. Shippy recounts her own experience of developing autoimmune markers (antiphospholipid antibodies) after her second baby and successfully reversing them through functional medicine, which inspired her to help patients with similar conditions.

And we're trained in medicine that once you have them, they never go away. But that ain't that ain't true. That ain't true.

Also said
“I started implementing everything I learned and reversed my autoimmune markers, which was great because then I could hold that for my patients, right?”— Dr. Shippy's personal success in reversing her own autoimmune markers.
“Just because you have Hashimoto's thyroiditis or just because you have lupus doesn't mean that you should just bandage your system with the imunosuppressants, we need to figure out why your immune system's confused and help your body get your immune system back into balance.”— Explains the functional medicine approach to autoimmune conditions.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

6 items

CoQ10

Supplement

A supplement that supports mitochondrial function, crucial for fertility.

Pretty much everything that supports mitochondria supports fertility. So, CoQ10, B vitamins, NAD, you and I both have had such a dramatic assistance from this supplement uh phospatylcoline in our bodies.

Find CoQ10

B Vitamins

Supplement

Supplements that support mitochondrial function, important for fertility.

Pretty much everything that supports mitochondria supports fertility. So, CoQ10, B vitamins, NAD, you and I both have had such a dramatic assistance from this supplement uh phospatylcoline in our bodies.

Find B

NAD (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide)

Supplement

A longevity supplement and precursor (NMN) that supports mitochondrial function, DNA repair, and inflammation, with potential benefits for fertility.

NAD is highlighted as a powerful supplement for mitochondrial support, which is directly linked to fertility. While David Sinclair's research on NMN (a precursor to NAD) in mice showed reversal of 'mouseopause,' Dr. Shippy uses the best oral forms of NAD and offers NAD IVs to patients. She combines it with other mitochondrial supporters like phosphatidylcholine, CoQ10, and B vitamins. She notes a study where NAD IVs significantly helped fertility. She also shares an anecdote of a 55-year-old patient taking NAD and CoQ10 who still has regular 28-day periods, suggesting its role in preserving reproductive health.

Pretty much everything that supports mitochondria supports fertility. So, CoQ10, B vitamins, NAD, you and I both have had such a dramatic assistance from this supplement uh phospatylcoline in our bodies.

Also said
“And then there are some there's a study that came out where they did the NAD IVs, you know, like a a 10ack of them and showed that it did help significantly with fertility.”— Mentions a study supporting NAD IVs for fertility.
“I had a patient uh today who's 55 and she's doing all the mitochondria support you know she's taking the mito the CoQ10 the NAD and she's 55 and she's still having regular periods like every 28 days”— Anecdotal evidence of NAD's impact on reproductive longevity.
Find NAD

Phosphatidylcholine

Supplement

A fatty substance that is a building block for cell and mitochondrial membranes, significantly aiding fertility in both men and women.

Both Dr. Hyman and Dr. Shippy have personally experienced and observed dramatic improvements in patients using phosphatidylcholine, especially for those with autoimmune and neurological diseases, and now for fertility. They consider it so impactful that if they could 'beam out a supplement' to everyone for fertility, it would be phosphatidylcholine. It's available in oral and IV forms, and they combine it with other mitochondrial support supplements for comprehensive benefits.

Uh, it turns out there's a lot of really good data behind phospatidylcholine being good for both men and women's fertility that like if I could just beam out a supplement to everybody who wants to protect their fertility or enhance their fertility, everybody would get ostet.

Also said
“That's basically like a fatty substance that's part of your cell membranes that helps both your regular cells and the mitochondrial membranes, right? So you've got it's basically providing the infrastructure like the the building blocks the bricks for your cells to work”— Explains the biological role and mechanism of phosphatidylcholine.
Find Phosphatidylcholine

Liposomal Glutathione

Supplement

A supplement used to support the body's detoxification pathways.

But then I think most people really benefit from uh doing some liposal glutathione and some liver support and some binders for at least 3 months and I describe a lot of that in the book.

Find Liposomal

Neurofeedback

Practice

A technique to help retrain brain waves, particularly useful for individuals whose brains are 'stuck' in a limbic state (high beta) due to past trauma or health crises.

Neurofeedback is presented as a more advanced tool for stress reduction and brain regulation, especially for those who find traditional meditation challenging or whose brains are deeply entrenched in stress responses. Dr. Shippy has personally invested significant time and money in neurofeedback, including expensive equipment, due to its profound impact. She explains that it helps the brain learn to shift out of hypervigilant states (like high beta) into more relaxed alpha and theta states, which is crucial for overall well-being, including fertility. It's about teaching the body that it's no longer 'running from the tiger' and can relax.

Personal experience

Dr. Shippy has done neurofeedback multiple times over 40 years and owns expensive equipment, finding it 'so impactful.'

And then for people that really want to get more nerdy about it, you could um you can do neuro feedback. I I personally find neuro feedback fascinating and have invested a lot of time and money and equipment and you know going and doing um week-long neuro feedback.

Also said
“I have a Muse a um a sensei which is one of the newer neuro feedback devices. I have the >> equipment that you spend 20 grand on because I find it so impactful.”— Details Dr. Shippy's personal investment and belief in the tool.
“One of the best things that we can do is go and do some neuro feedback to help our our bodies know that we're not running from the tiger anymore. We're not >> needing to be hypervigilant and we can actually start relaxing and enjoying our lives again.”— Explains the therapeutic goal of neurofeedback.
Find Neurofeedback
Disclosed sponsorships2speaker disclosed

The Preconception Revolution: A Science-Backed Path to Fertility and Generational Health

Book Sponsored · disclosed

Dr. Ann Shippy's new book, which provides a comprehensive guide to optimizing health before conception for both parents.

DisclosureDr. Hyman wrote the foreword for this book.

This book is presented as a crucial resource for anyone considering starting or expanding their family. It outlines the science-backed path to fertility and generational health, emphasizing the importance of the preconception period (3-36 months before conception). The book details how to address diet, toxins, stress, and mitochondrial function to improve egg and sperm quality, leading to healthier pregnancies and babies. Dr. Hyman highly recommends it, stating he felt compelled to write the foreword due to the neglected but vital topic of creating healthy babies. It's positioned as a 'revolution' because it challenges the conventional approach to fertility and aims to empower individuals with actionable steps.

And your new book, The Preconception Revolution, a sciencebacked path to fertility and generational health, which is a great subtitle, for which I wrote the forward. Thank you for asking me to do that.

Find The

Every Baby Well (Online Course)

Service Sponsored · disclosed

An online course designed for individuals who want to implement Dr. Shippy's preconception health strategies but cannot see her as a patient.

DisclosureDr. Ann Shippy's online course.

The 'Every Baby Well' course is Dr. Shippy's initiative to make her knowledge accessible to a wider audience. It's built on her dream that 'all babies are born healthy' and provides the information she wished she had known before her own pregnancy. The course aims to build a community of parents-to-be who are committed to a healthy lifestyle and want to utilize these tools for their families. It serves as a practical extension of her book, offering more in-depth guidance and fostering peer support.

Oh, the course is uh we've started a a separate website called Every Baby Well, cuz that's my that's my dream is that all babies are born healthy.

Find Every

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

6 items
I mean it it is kind of amazing you know the body is like you crash your car and it doesn't heal. You know, you break a window and it doesn't repair itself. But your body is this intensely powerful healing machine, right?
Highlights the body's inherent capacity for healing, contrasting it with inanimate objects, setting a positive tone for health interventions.
I was never once taught about how do we create a healthy pregnancy and how do we create a healthy baby and how do like it get vaccinations? Like that was it, right?
Reveals a significant gap in conventional medical education regarding preconception health and holistic baby development.
It's like if you're going to plant, you know, a vegetable in the garden, you want healthy soil. And so, how do you create metaphorically healthy soil in a human body, both for the man and the woman?
Uses a powerful and easily understandable metaphor to explain the importance of foundational health for fertility.
It's not like it's not like you're doing this just to have a baby. You're actually getting yourself healthier. And there is benefits to that. You're going to feel better. You're going to have less chronic disease.
Emphasizes that preconception health optimization offers broader benefits beyond fertility, improving overall well-being and longevity.
The healthier you get, the more fertile you are. That's the whole message here is that if you want to be fer, you have to be healthy.
A concise and impactful summary of the core message of the episode, linking health directly to fertility.
Infertility is not a disease. It's just a sign that something else is going on in your body that you can address.
Reiterates the 'check engine light' metaphor, reframing infertility as a symptom rather than a primary diagnosis, offering hope for intervention.

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Topics covered

ivf limitationsinfertility causessperm health declinebiological age vs chronological agefunctional medicine approachpreconception revolution bookhealthy baby inputsmedical education gapsfertility crisis statisticschild chronic illnessdr shippy's backgroundhealing journeyepigeneticsintergenerational healthmale fertility importancesperm production timelineprocessed foods impactenvironmental toxinsendocrine disruptorsdetoxification protocols
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